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    Thread: U.S. set to approve python ban

    1. #61
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      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      Does anyone know if we can watch this mess on TV while it is happening? Will this announcement be live?

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    2. #62
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      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/01/17/interior-secretary-to-announce-python-ban/

      B
      oa Constrictors and Retics are not on the list YET. Yet. Yet. Yet.

      They are reviewing it to see about adding them to the list.

      We need to fight.

      Star


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    3. #63
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      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      Under the rule, Burmese pythons, yellow anacondas, and the northern and southern African pythons are declared an “injurious” species which makes it illegal to import them or sell them across state.
      Ashe said the Service will continue to consider listing as injurious the five other species of nonnative snakes that the agency also proposed in 2010 – the reticulated python, boa constrictor, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda and Beni anaconda. Once that process is completed, the Service will publish final determinations on those species.
      this is the official word. we (boa keepers) are not out of the woods by a long shot. they're still gunning for us.

    4. #64
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      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      Once Precedent is set, the breakdown of the industry becomes a very easy process. With the passing of this, all it will take is a few boa “sightings” and adding anything to the law is not that difficult. Even if Boas are not on it, we are pretty much doomed.
      ________________________

      I am about as pro-gun as any person can be so I consider it appalling that people in the UK have been stripped of their right to protect their life and property. Criminals don’t abide by laws so the gun-carrying thief breaking into somebody’s home in the UK must feel pretty confident about his chances; he knows that the odds are in his favor that any opposition he encounters is going to be unarmed. If a UK citizen owned a gun in defiance of the law and used it against the thief he would be in as much (or more) trouble as the robber. In the UK, they would both be considered criminals. I find this to be very, very sad: defend your family and your property and become a criminal for doing so. Rest assured that if that same guy broke into my house here in Virginia he would have a six-pack of Coke can sized exit wounds in his back.

      But how did guns become illegal in the UK? Was it done in one fell swoop? Nope. It was done in stages, a tactic often used to disarm (literally in this case) the opposing voices. Despite my pro-gun position I didn’t sit down to write about gun control. I continue to be concerned with the fate of reptile ownership in the United States. But the history of gun control in the UK serves as a excellent timeline that illustrates our likely fate unless we get our act together in very short order. Here’s how things went down in the UK:
      1988 - In the wake of the “Hungerford Massacre” the Firearms (Amendment) Act of 1988 was passed. This law made it illegal to own semi-automatic rifles, pump-action rifles and military weapons that shoot explosives. The law also implemented registration requirements and a requirement for “secure storage” of allowed shotguns. Handguns (pistols) were not impacted at all by this law.
      1997 – In the wake of the “Dublane Massacre” ownership of almost all handguns was banned. One of the key selling points of the law was that a very limited number of people would be impacted (fewer than 1 in 1,000).
      2006 – The Violent Crime Reduction Act was passed and this made it illegal to buy/sell air weapons by mail order. This includes things like Airsoft guns. Yep, in the UK it is even illegal to own a fake gun because it looks too much like a real gun. Hilarious. Tragic. Sad.
      The path from there to here was implemented through a simple concept: divide and conquer. In the late 1980′s UK pistol owners were apathetic about the proposed ban on rifles because it didn’t affect them. “Why should I care if they ban shotguns?”, they said. “I only keep pistols and bolt-action rifles.” In an act of self-preservation they stayed silent, letting their rifle-owning neighbors have their rights extracted through the legislative process. Those same people who thought they were safe found their rights removed less than a decade later. The politicians who pushed this law through the UK’s legal system were smart to leave pistol owners out of the fight in 1988. Attacking the whole gun-owning population of the UK would have been tantamount to the Humane Society of the United States trying to make pet dogs illegal in the wake of an escaped Nile Monitor killing someone’s Terrier. Patient and resolute the anti-gun movement capitalized on high-profile tragedies to further their agenda. Baby steps. Little-by-little they got it done. And look at the UK now…
      Now let’s turn our attention to things here in the USA. Large constrictors are under attack. Most of us know that. And many bearded dragon breeders, ball python breeders, corn snake breeders and leopard gecko breeders could care less. Why? Because they don’t keep large constrictors, of course. That should sound eerily similar to the same apathetic mindset held by UK pistol owners back in 1988. And look what happened to them less than a decade later. Every time there is an isolated incident in the exotic animal community the anti-pet movement gains a little more traction to push through another limiting piece of legislation. Whether it is done state-by-state, the Lacey Act or through the federal law making process, they are as patient and as resolute as the anti-gun zealots in the UK were.

      I know how the end of reptile ownership is going to happen. If we continue on our current path it will mirror what happened in the UK. The voices of opposition in the UK screamed, “you can’t legislate a madman”, meaning that a ban on firearms would not stop the next massacre from happening. If someone wants to get a gun and go on a shooting spree it will happen. No law is going to prevent that. My screams as a reptile owner have been of a similar vein. I oppose any legal limitations on the rights of responsible pet owners. No matter how responsible a pet owner I am there will always be someone out there who is not. That person will do something stupid and my rights will be removed as a result.

      But why? Why do the actions of a few lead to restrictions on the many? The answer is simple: Legislation is a bludgeon tool. It lacks finesse. Laws have not, can not and will not deal with subtlety and nuance. They are a widely cast net that frequently catches huge numbers of unintended victims. I have already heard it said. “Our inspectors are not trained tell the difference between a Burmese python and a Boa Constrictor so the most simple course of action is to ban them both.” If that’s the case then how would a local law enforcement official tell the difference between a blood python and a burmese python? Simple: He can’t. Well, we better ban blood pythons too …just to be safe. And when the time comes to ban ball pythons you can rest assured that Angolan pythons will be thrown out with them. They look too similar. And so it will happen; our compartmentalized herpetocultural community will fall in small group after small group. And each group will remain silent as the others are attacked. It will probably take the next decade or two to happen but the writing is on the wall. The anti-pet movement is more than ready to wait us out and I have not seen evidence of the community having the stomach for a long fight.
      Is there an alternative to legislation? Yes! It’s called self-regulation. And this is where there is a fundamental divide within society. Proponents of large government believe that it is the government’s responsibility to take action to provide for and protect its citizens. Supporters of small government believe that protection is indeed the government’s responsibility but ‘providing’ is the realm of private industry and government should stay out of it. The government should not regulate the commercial interaction between provider and consumer. In a system of self-regulation the industry controls itself from within; it’s a commercial ecosystem that has its balance upset when the dirty fingers of legislation are inserted. Whether we are talking about banking, exotic animals or pharmaceuticals the concept is the same; the industry regulates itself and acts in a responsible manner, no government intervention needed. In the end the consumer is the real regulator because it is only where there is mutual benefit in a transaction that the transaction can take place. Even though I would rather not pay $130/month for my iPhone I still do because I find value in the trade. If my iPhone bill were to double to $260 I would no longer see the value and I would discontinue my service. The provider is always going to push the edge of course; they are a for-profit entity and will always work to get as much as they possibly can without pushing me past the limits of my perceived value. In this delicate balance between consumer and provider we don’t need the government to come in and control mobile phone price plans. Doing so screws up the natural balance of commerce.
      When an industry fails to self-regulate it provides a powerful foothold for the supporters of government regulation (banking and health care come to mind here). And that is where we are today in the reptile world. There is no shortage of idiocy in the reptile trade. Someone out there is not securely keeping their reticulated python or rhino viper. Another guy is selling Burmese pythons and eyelash vipers to 14-year old kids at a trade show. And let’s not forget the guy who is keeping hundreds of snakes in horrible filth with no food, water or climate control. None of these people are you, right? Of course not. It always seems to be someone else that is screwing things up for the hobby. The problem is that the consumer rovider mechanism for self-regulation is seemingly absent. The only thing an individual can do is take care of his/her own business; keep their animals secure, well-fed, watered and in a suitable climate. They cannot control what another keeper is doing. This appears to suggest that government regulation is a viable solution, doesn’t it? Without changing what we do as a community, the answer, unfortunately is ‘yes’. The ability to own a reptile in the United States will not survive if we stay on our current path.
      But how do we self-regulate? This is a tough question. As a person purchasing a green anaconda I know what my responsibilities are. But what about the seller? It would seem like a no-brainer to say that a person would not sell a baby anaconda to a minor but that has been proved wrong more than once. Should the seller take steps to make sure the person buying is fully prepared to responsibly undertake the long-term ownership of the animal? Is that realistic? No, it’s not. The retail community doesn’t support it. If I put somebody through a gauntlet of questions before selling them a green anaconda at a trade show they are just going to go to another table and buy it from the wholesaler who picked up a 20-lot of them earlier that day and could care about nothing other than their method of payment. The long-term impact: I am not economically viable and another person owns a green anaconda that is doomed to get sick and die …but not before it escapes a few times because he thinks that putting a book on the screen top of his aquarium is going to keep the snake from pushing its way out. Because the community is unable to regulate itself it is primed and ready for government intervention.
      Reptile community self-regulation seems viable only if there is widespread individual self-regulation and this illustrates the “you can’t regulate a madman” problem. The reptile community is too large and too diverse in both number and intelligence for there to be any realistic chance to self-regulate. Aside from “lock in a sock” forms of keeper-on-keeper physical violence I don’t know what the answer is. But I do know that if things don’t change we are going to start losing our rights at an ever-increasing rate. And the only people we can truly blame when its over will be ourselves.

      Let the UK Be a Lesson | East Coast Reptile Breeders
      Cheers,
      Colin Weaver
      weird_science04 and GARRIGA like this.

    5. #65
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      06-25-2017 05:19 PM

      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      Oh I know and agree. I just hope we are allowed to continue to fight this.

      Star


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    6. #66
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      06-11-2016 09:46 PM

      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      just checked the USARK facebook page... only the yellow anaconda, burms, and afrocks are on the list apparently, but it still says that they will continue to consider the other ones....amazing how ignorant people can be about something they fear

    7. #67
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      10-28-2016 08:37 AM

      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      this is so stressful... I am very glad boas were saved though...

    8. #68
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      06-08-2015 06:09 AM

      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      To the point that Alex just made, this is why I say breed for greed, the best to the best and be careful who you buy from but more importantly who you sell to. Our own actions will determine much of our outcome based on how we are perceived.

    9. #69
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      02-27-2012 06:22 PM

      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      This is what happens when government cant get any real problems solved , they pick on animals that cant defend themselves . The dog ban is even worse any dog that is a pitbull or looks like a pitbull , any fight breed , any security breed and any dog 100 lbs or over is what they are trying to ban . Its silly . I have a guy that lives three houses down that sells drugs right out in the open with his kids playing buy his feet and the police just drive by ... maybe i'll sell him a Burmese Python and then call the police maybe then they will arrest him .

    10. #70
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      06-08-2015 06:09 AM

      Default Re: U.S. set to approve python ban

      Quote Originally Posted by redboy1975 View Post
      This is what happens when government cant get any real problems solved , they pick on animals that cant defend themselves . The dog ban is even worse any dog that is a pitbull or looks like a pitbull , any fight breed , any security breed and any dog 100 lbs or over is what they are trying to ban . Its silly . I have a guy that lives three houses down that sells drugs right out in the open with his kids playing buy his feet and the police just drive by ... maybe i'll sell him a Burmese Python and then call the police maybe then they will arrest him .
      I understand your point but instead of alienating the dog people by throwing them into our problems that way, we should invite them to fight along with us and the point I've been trying to make about building up a bigger Nation from all areas, cause this is the only way we will defeat such a large movement, like the animal rights people and there many dollars.

      I used to own a Pitbull in a county that prohibited them and the police would walk right by because they new it was such a stupid law. In fact, an office from animal control crossed my path one day and realizing what a sweet dog I had, merely told me to be more careful in public and walked away.

      Besides, owning a Birmese hasn't become illegal, just interstate transportation, export and import have. No one's knocking on your door Gastopal style and taking them away or grabbing them from you if you're handling them in your driveway.

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      01-02-2017 06:32 PM

      Default

      Quote Originally Posted by tfronk68 View Post
      I live in Utah, and a few years ago the State government wanted to ban "Spice". which apparently you smoke it and it gets you high. Also its legal in the US. Anyway, to ban it, they would not allow certain chemicals that are used to produce spice to be sold in Utah. In response, the Spice manufacturers removed those ingredients and added more. Every time they change the ingredients, the law goes back to court for another few years... Its really a mess, but my point is, its usually not that easy to just amend or add to a law.
      My family lives in Utah and I am visiting now. I remember the spice stuff. If they pass a law the government will have to start a new law or Allen's the law. Its not just as easy as adding whatever they want.

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