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    Thread: The Mouse Factory - closing

    1. #1
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      Default The Mouse Factory - closing

      I've been using The Mouse Factory (aka TMF) for about 7 or 8 years now and have NEVER been disappointed with their product or service. I've always felt that they were the VERY BEST in the business. So sad to see them closing down.

      Looks like I'll be looking for a new supplier. My three prospects right now are:
      Layne Labs
      Big Cheese
      Bushhill Rodents



      jb

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      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      I saw Bushhills Operation at Arlington. I must say that I was thoroughly impressed with the packaging and the looks of the rodents. Very clean and well run operation IMO.

      I recently switched over to ARS and was pleasantly suprised on the quality of their feeders too.

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      10-06-2013 03:11 AM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      I looked at ARS years ago and I THINK (don't quote me) that I remember them telling me that they're 100% supplied by a laboratory and they simply package and sell the feeders. I could be wrong though - it's been SEVERAL years since that phone call.

      IMO, if that's the case, it's neither inherently good nor bad, just simply a factor. On one hand, you could argue that the rodents should be highly consistent from one batch to the next due to lab protocols. On the other hand, you could argue that you can't speak with the actual operation raising your feeders to ask questions (one of which if coming from a lab would be "are these surplus rodents from batches that were raised for testing diabetes drugs, heart conditions, or anything else that might increase the fat content" - which is possibly the problem Rodent Pro rats have when it comes to boas).

      jb

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      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      I did not know that. I just got Bushhills price list and maybe ordering from them the next time around. Thanks for the heads up.

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      10-06-2013 03:11 AM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Like I said, don't quote me on it. Definitely call them to find out for yourself. I'm operating off of a sometimes faulty memory here! lol

      jb

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      09-26-2014 09:43 PM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Brady View Post
      I looked at ARS years ago and I THINK (don't quote me) that I remember them telling me that they're 100% supplied by a laboratory
      they are. i just spoke with them about a month ago.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Brady View Post
      On the other hand, you could argue that you can't speak with the actual operation raising your feeders to ask questions
      they'll tell you which lab supplies them. i forget the name, but i checked out their website and it was pretty informative. i really have no qualms with feeding lab supply surplus due to the OBSESSIVELY stringent guidelines on health/sanitation for the rats. basically, if their rats have ANY foreign bacteria/fungus/viruses/etc or are at all unhealthy, the experiments that their customers (labs) do with them would be skewed and inaccurate. because of that they are THE cleanest rats (inside AND out) you can possibly get - at least up to the point they leave the lab. after that it's anybody's guess

    7. #7
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      05-02-2013 03:01 AM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      i recommend bushhill rodents

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      10-06-2013 03:11 AM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      I thought I remembered that correctly. Thanks for clarifying Chris!

      Again, my ONLY hesitation with buying lab surplus would be, are the rodents being bred with genes like the "Zucker" gene which would make them naturally fatty and/or are they fed so that they get really fat. The reason a lab would do this is to sell these rodents which would become obese, diabetic, develop cardiovascular disease, etc., to pharma companies so that they can research cardiovascular and metabolic drugs prior to human trials.

      For those reading, don't interpret this incorrectly and think that the rodents have been treated with various pharmaceutical agents prior to you purchasing. They have NOT been tested upon - they would be rodents that are leftover because pharma companies didn't buy them. They would just have the possibility of being ULTRA fatty and as Mike Weitzman has detailed at length (Fat Rats?) fat rats are NO GOOD for boas. So, IMO, you're taking a BIG risk with lab surplus if it's being raised to be tested for cardiovascular and metabolic diseases.

      jb

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      10-31-2014 04:21 AM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      I thought "TMF" did a good amount of business around the country?


      Any idea why they are folding up ?

      ARS uses Labs Taconic and or Harlan I believe that's who Brian was using when I was purchasing from him.

      I would try to stick to all white rats, that's usually a better percentage of not seeing genetically enhanced higher fat content rats.

    10. #10
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      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Quote Originally Posted by Boa Amarali View Post
      Any idea why they are folding up ?
      I got a call back on the 2nd from a friend of mine who called them to order some rodents and he said Edna was REALLY upset. She said something to the effect of the manager (I believe it was the manager) decided to leave and his departure left them in a spot where they couldn't run the business. So, they decided to close up shop.

      jb

    11. #11
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      01-09-2014 03:21 PM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Saw this thread and had to jump in on the LAB portion of it. A few years back I worked at TACONIC, one of the labs that provides surplus to these companies. I wil say this, these rats/mice live in precisely controlled environments under conditions that are ridiculously sanitary. I used to have to change into scrubs, gloves, a mask and slippers before entering the animal controlled section of the company. Then walk to my "bio-bubble", which is a tranparent soft plastic tent that is about 12ft x 30ft. Each "bio-bubble" is positive pressure which means individually controlled filtered forced air is pumped into them through thousands of holes in the ceiling forcing continuos new air in and old air out via the bottom of the bubble. I would then have to strip down to shorts and t shirt, enter the first little portion of the bubble, don new scrubs gloves, shoes and mask, tape sleeves and legs and then enter the bubble. Huge stainless steel containers were delivered to each bubble that had been heated to a ridiculous temperature. These were full of supplies, cages, food, bedding, paperwork, etc. These were then attaches to the bubble via a port and then sprayed with sanitizer and then were allowed to be opened. Quite the operation huh?

      So as far as the conditions of the animals, excellent. My bubble was in charge of producing projects for AMGEN. All kinds of selective breeding, some lines of rodents were huge, for big projects and some small. Essentialy the customer states what they want in the end, sends you a couple of mice and you breed to the end result. Just like boas, you get hets, homozygous and the wild types, so whatever is not needed gets sent out daily and is euthanized in a giant gas chamber, litterally thousands daily, then they sell those to Zoos, breeders, etc.

      Perfectly clean animals? Yes. Would I use them, no. Reason being as stated above, there are so many genetic traits bred into these animals and you never know what you are gonna get. We had white mice that luminessed certain areas under certain lighting, mice with alzheimers that forgot everything, hyper active mice, hairless with no imune system, etc. oh, and microchipped animals. These animals are euthanized by the thousands and different strains all together, so I think its pretty difficult for them to say exactly what you are getting other than a rodent.

      Just thought I would give a little firsthand experience for those that cared to read. Ultimately its your decision, and im certain that some of these genetically engineered rodents will do no harm to your snake, but, I think it is pretty hard to be certain what you are getting and the long term effects may not be known.

    12. #12
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      09-26-2014 09:43 PM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Quote Originally Posted by AaronZav View Post
      Saw this thread and had to jump in on the LAB portion of it. A few years back I worked at TACONIC, one of the labs that provides surplus to these companies...
      THANK YOU for the first-hand knowledge, aaron! very good info to know!
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      10-06-2013 03:11 AM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      THANK YOU @AaronZav That is possibly the best, most informative "feeder-post" I've ever read!!!!! And it confirms all of my suspicions about "lab surplus".

      jb

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      09-17-2014 04:12 PM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Wow! Now that's what i call "inside information"! Love it! Thanks @AaronZav

      Quote Originally Posted by AaronZav View Post
      Saw this thread and had to jump in on the LAB portion of it. A few years back I worked at TACONIC, one of the labs that provides surplus to these companies. I wil say this, these rats/mice live in precisely controlled environments under conditions that are ridiculously sanitary. I used to have to change into scrubs, gloves, a mask and slippers before entering the animal controlled section of the company. Then walk to my "bio-bubble", which is a tranparent soft plastic tent that is about 12ft x 30ft. Each "bio-bubble" is positive pressure which means individually controlled filtered forced air is pumped into them through thousands of holes in the ceiling forcing continuos new air in and old air out via the bottom of the bubble. I would then have to strip down to shorts and t shirt, enter the first little portion of the bubble, don new scrubs gloves, shoes and mask, tape sleeves and legs and then enter the bubble. Huge stainless steel containers were delivered to each bubble that had been heated to a ridiculous temperature. These were full of supplies, cages, food, bedding, paperwork, etc. These were then attaches to the bubble via a port and then sprayed with sanitizer and then were allowed to be opened. Quite the operation huh?

      So as far as the conditions of the animals, excellent. My bubble was in charge of producing projects for AMGEN. All kinds of selective breeding, some lines of rodents were huge, for big projects and some small. Essentialy the customer states what they want in the end, sends you a couple of mice and you breed to the end result. Just like boas, you get hets, homozygous and the wild types, so whatever is not needed gets sent out daily and is euthanized in a giant gas chamber, litterally thousands daily, then they sell those to Zoos, breeders, etc.

      Perfectly clean animals? Yes. Would I use them, no. Reason being as stated above, there are so many genetic traits bred into these animals and you never know what you are gonna get. We had white mice that luminessed certain areas under certain lighting, mice with alzheimers that forgot everything, hyper active mice, hairless with no imune system, etc. oh, and microchipped animals. These animals are euthanized by the thousands and different strains all together, so I think its pretty difficult for them to say exactly what you are getting other than a rodent.

      Just thought I would give a little firsthand experience for those that cared to read. Ultimately its your decision, and im certain that some of these genetically engineered rodents will do no harm to your snake, but, I think it is pretty hard to be certain what you are getting and the long term effects may not be known.
      AaronZav likes this.

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      10-31-2014 04:21 AM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Quote Originally Posted by AaronZav View Post
      Saw this thread and had to jump in on the LAB portion of it. A few years back I worked at TACONIC, one of the labs that provides surplus to these companies. I wil say this, these rats/mice live in precisely controlled environments under conditions that are ridiculously sanitary. I used to have to change into scrubs, gloves, a mask and slippers before entering the animal controlled section of the company. Then walk to my "bio-bubble", which is a tranparent soft plastic tent that is about 12ft x 30ft. Each "bio-bubble" is positive pressure which means individually controlled filtered forced air is pumped into them through thousands of holes in the ceiling forcing continuos new air in and old air out via the bottom of the bubble. I would then have to strip down to shorts and t shirt, enter the first little portion of the bubble, don new scrubs gloves, shoes and mask, tape sleeves and legs and then enter the bubble. Huge stainless steel containers were delivered to each bubble that had been heated to a ridiculous temperature. These were full of supplies, cages, food, bedding, paperwork, etc. These were then attaches to the bubble via a port and then sprayed with sanitizer and then were allowed to be opened. Quite the operation huh?

      So as far as the conditions of the animals, excellent. My bubble was in charge of producing projects for AMGEN. All kinds of selective breeding, some lines of rodents were huge, for big projects and some small. Essentialy the customer states what they want in the end, sends you a couple of mice and you breed to the end result. Just like boas, you get hets, homozygous and the wild types, so whatever is not needed gets sent out daily and is euthanized in a giant gas chamber, litterally thousands daily, then they sell those to Zoos, breeders, etc.

      Perfectly clean animals? Yes. Would I use them, no. Reason being as stated above, there are so many genetic traits bred into these animals and you never know what you are gonna get. We had white mice that luminessed certain areas under certain lighting, mice with alzheimers that forgot everything, hyper active mice, hairless with no imune system, etc. oh, and microchipped animals. These animals are euthanized by the thousands and different strains all together, so I think its pretty difficult for them to say exactly what you are getting other than a rodent.

      Just thought I would give a little firsthand experience for those that cared to read. Ultimately its your decision, and im certain that some of these genetically engineered rodents will do no harm to your snake, but, I think it is pretty hard to be certain what you are getting and the long term effects may not be known.
      Thankyou for your post Aaron. Your first hand knowledge helps tie together bits of information I've gathered and read
      which lead me to believe much of what you just confirmed to be fact.

      I'm so glad I have a great private source for rats at this point so I don't have to roll the dice anymore.

      What's crazy if you use these rats from the Lab sources and do get something odd/funky which leads to illness and/or death in your Boa.

      There is nobody or no way to directly tie it back to the Lab rats and what ever genetically manipulated condition they might have
      ( Hypertensive disorder , Diabetes research etc . . .)

      So no one can be held directly responsible for any illness or death that might be a result from the rats.

      Only person to hold responsible is ourselves for using these Rats I guess.


      Thx Aaron !
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      10-31-2014 05:43 PM

      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      I really liked TMF. The only reason I stopped using them is shipping costs to CA were way too high. I never had a bad experience. Sad to see any family run American business close.
      -Sean in NoCal
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      -Teddy Roosevelt.

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      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Another place that is really good is Loxahatchee Rodents. Loxahatchee Rodents - Quality Frozen Feeder Rodents - The Best Mice and Rats for Reptile Food in Florida Bill and Jim are friendly, great to talk to, and very helpful. They have A+ service. I use to order from American Rodent Supply but I had a bad experience last spring. Most don't have this experience with them but they have lost my business forever because of it. As a result, I looked for another rodent supplier and Loxahatchee Rodents reminds me more of TMF. American Rodent was cheaper than TMF but the rats were dirtier and the packaging not always the greatest (getting bags of rats with slashes in the bags from a razor). Loxahatchee was actually cheaper than ARS shipped and packaged much nicer and the rats were much cleaner.

      I would highly recommend them.

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      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Well, glad that some of you found the info I provided useful. I did not post it to sway anyones decision one way or another, as that is not my style. More as a here is some true info and you can make your own educated decision type of thing. This was actually a great place to work and helped me out with genetics a ton, being in charge of some prety important breeding projects. Glad I was only there for a bit over a year though. We were not allowed to have rodents or anything that consumed rodents while working there. That was the longest stretch that I had been without a snake in my life since like 1987. Like I said before, the conditions these rodents are kept in are amazing and the operation is fascinating, but for me, I would rather not feed these guys to my animals. I do think there is a place for them though, rescues/zoos and places that operate on a strict budget or donations and have to take what they can get. I just think for me and my private collection, I would rather play it "safe"!

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      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Grrrrr, forgot to add another factor for me, the water that is given to the rodents is heavily chlorinated, you can definitely smell it in the water. I have my own opinions on the effects of chlorine long term on any living organism, but thats a whole other can o worms.

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      Default Re: The Mouse Factory - closing

      Quote Originally Posted by AaronZav View Post
      Saw this thread and had to jump in on the LAB portion of it. A few years back I worked at TACONIC, one of the labs that provides surplus to these companies. I wil say this, these rats/mice live in precisely controlled environments under conditions that are ridiculously sanitary. I used to have to change into scrubs, gloves, a mask and slippers before entering the animal controlled section of the company. Then walk to my "bio-bubble", which is a tranparent soft plastic tent that is about 12ft x 30ft. Each "bio-bubble" is positive pressure which means individually controlled filtered forced air is pumped into them through thousands of holes in the ceiling forcing continuos new air in and old air out via the bottom of the bubble. I would then have to strip down to shorts and t shirt, enter the first little portion of the bubble, don new scrubs gloves, shoes and mask, tape sleeves and legs and then enter the bubble. Huge stainless steel containers were delivered to each bubble that had been heated to a ridiculous temperature. These were full of supplies, cages, food, bedding, paperwork, etc. These were then attaches to the bubble via a port and then sprayed with sanitizer and then were allowed to be opened. Quite the operation huh?

      So as far as the conditions of the animals, excellent. My bubble was in charge of producing projects for AMGEN. All kinds of selective breeding, some lines of rodents were huge, for big projects and some small. Essentialy the customer states what they want in the end, sends you a couple of mice and you breed to the end result. Just like boas, you get hets, homozygous and the wild types, so whatever is not needed gets sent out daily and is euthanized in a giant gas chamber, litterally thousands daily, then they sell those to Zoos, breeders, etc.

      Perfectly clean animals? Yes. Would I use them, no. Reason being as stated above, there are so many genetic traits bred into these animals and you never know what you are gonna get. We had white mice that luminessed certain areas under certain lighting, mice with alzheimers that forgot everything, hyper active mice, hairless with no imune system, etc. oh, and microchipped animals. These animals are euthanized by the thousands and different strains all together, so I think its pretty difficult for them to say exactly what you are getting other than a rodent.

      Just thought I would give a little firsthand experience for those that cared to read. Ultimately its your decision, and im certain that some of these genetically engineered rodents will do no harm to your snake, but, I think it is pretty hard to be certain what you are getting and the long term effects may not be known.
      One of the most informative posts I have read in a LONG TIME. Great post @AaronZav
      Thank you for this information
      AaronZav likes this.

     

     

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