Follow us on...
Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Watch us on YouTube
Register
<

User Tag List

  • Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Embarrassed
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • + Reply to Thread
    Results 1 to 17 of 17
    Like Tree19Likes
    • 1 Post By Zaphod42
    • 1 Post By Noelle7206
    • 1 Post By acephantom903
    • 1 Post By Zaphod42
    • 3 Post By bcr_229
    • 2 Post By Noelle7206
    • 2 Post By Kung Fu Joe
    • 1 Post By Zaphod42
    • 1 Post By Zaphod42
    • 3 Post By Kung Fu Joe
    • 1 Post By Noelle7206
    • 2 Post By Zincubus

    Thread: The never ending substrate question

    1. #1
      Snake Maniac
      This user has not set their status.
       
      I am:
      ----
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
      Zaphod42's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2010
      Location
      Boston, MA
      Posts
      1,922
      Images
      2
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-15-2017 04:13 PM

      Default The never ending substrate question

      Alright. I'm officially done with shavings. I've always used shavings as substrate but I'm officially over with how messy it is and how quickly it molds. I have several snakes that just love to tip their water bowls or slosh the water around which always gets the shavings underneath the bowl wet and they usually mold in ten seconds. Okay not really but I'm pretty good about spot cleaning but I swear every time I walk into Snaketown all I smell is wet moldy shavings. It's driving me insane. Plus shavings get everywhere. I'm constantly sweeping. I hate sweeping.

      We're still working on finishing the basement for Snaketown II so in the meantime I'm debating what I want to try out. I know at least a few of you use kraft paper so I'm thinking of giving that a try for some of the cages. While I like the idea of having substrate that my boas can bury themselves in this really only works for the babies. Anything over a year just packs the shavings down or pushes them up against the sides of the tub/cages. I'm leaning towards trying this out - https://www.uline.com/BL_1952/Kraft-Paper-Sheets - it's precut and 100% recycled which makes me happy. My concerns are that it's not going to absorb any spilt water or that it's going to be too slick and everything including the boas are just going to slide around on it. They make indented paper but it's not made from recycled material (my snakes don't need virgin paper to poop on) and it's pricier.

      I'm probably going to use some type of bark substrate for some of my other cages like my Jungle Carpet Python and Brazilian Rainbow Boa. Neither of them are particularly messy and the BRB needs the humidity. Anyone else have any suggestions?
      acephantom903 likes this.
      “I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” -DA
      www.outworldreptiles.com

    2. #2
      Snake Guru
      is probably underwater!
       
      I am:
      Friendly
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Mar 2011
      Location
      Arkansas, USA
      Posts
      2,975
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 10:36 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      For snakes that need more humidity, I do like orchid bark...but it's harder to find (here, anyway) & not cheap. I like the corrugated kraft-paper stuff from U-line, but cutting it to fit was a hassle, and because it's

      paper, it will get soggy with spilled water. (used it for desert snakes-rattlesnakes etc) I don't blame you for ranting about wood shavings...I've never used them for snakes. Few of my snakes need humidity so I

      mostly use a mix of Carefresh 'natural' & my clean shredded paper (mail etc, & never the outer envelopes btw). The Carefresh is a bit too clumpy by itself, the paper shreds are cheap & add fluff. When I kept a

      large boa, I actually preferred to have several pieces cut to fit of indoor-outdoor carpet (the all-nylon backless kind): it's cheap, indestructible, doesn't harbor mold if wet, offers wonderful traction for the snake,

      allows heat to rise thru (from UTH), can be hand-washed & even bleached to kill germs (holds it's color too!), very eco-friendly (did I mention it lasts forever?), and is just thick & stiff enough to stay flat. I suggest

      cutting the pieces a few inches longer on all sides, then cutting a square "notch" out of each corner...this way you can fold up each side. It would take a determined burrower to go underneath it, & larger boas just

      don't usually try. It comes in great natural-looking colors (brown, tan, green etc) is widely available (large home improvement stores) & while hand-washing (in the tub or large sink) isn't much fun, it drips-dry very

      quickly (remember it's all nylon) and if you want the humidity, you can use it slightly damp anyway. Just shake the water out. You can spot clean it too, of course. That's my 2 cents...

      One word of caution about carpet: Make SURE your snake never hooks it's teeth into it...so only feed using tongs or on a "plate"!

      PS- Leftover pieces of indoor/outdoor carpet have many uses...for example, can be rolled up (& fastened) to form a snake 'hide'.
      acephantom903 likes this.

    3. #3
      Snake Lover
      is Chillin' with princess butter.
       
      I am:
      Geeky
       

      ReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Location
      Palm Beach County, FL
      Posts
      916
      Images
      2
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 04:31 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      https://www.uline.com/BL_1961/Indent...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds
      Adds a little traction and comes in a roll which I like. I have a rod the length of the interior of the cage and I just cut that length. The indented version is pretty good about absorbing water. Only issue I can think of is if a lot of water like a 1 gallon plus water bowl might saturate the whole thing and might cause a risk for scale rot depending on how long it takes for you to find it... then again that is a risk with most substrates.

      How many cages are you looking to use this for? The recycled paper is a better deal and will go a much longer distance due to the volume of the bundles.

      My roll has lasted me over 12 months and still has maybe another 5 months left in it for one 4 foot cage with weekly changes. If you had six 6 foot cages, it would only last 10 changes.
      Noelle7206 likes this.

    4. #4
      Snake Maniac
      This user has not set their status.
       
      I am:
      ----
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
      Zaphod42's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2010
      Location
      Boston, MA
      Posts
      1,922
      Images
      2
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-15-2017 04:13 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      @Noelle7206 I like the carpet idea. I use actual reptile carpet for our lizard cages and I think it looks nice and is easy to clean. We have to do a home depot run this weekend so I'll scope out some of the indoor/outdoor carpet while I'm there.

      Quote Originally Posted by acephantom903 View Post
      How many cages are you looking to use this for? The recycled paper is a better deal and will go a much longer distance due to the volume of the bundles.
      I have a lot, lol. Two stacks of 3ft and 4ft cages, two 6ft cages, and five racks. I'll definitely use a bark mix for a few of the cages but I'm still figuring out what to use for the tubs and other cages. I think I might try out the recycled stuff and see how I like it for the tubs and maybe do some form of carpet for the larger cages.
      acephantom903 likes this.
      “I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” -DA
      www.outworldreptiles.com

    5. #5
      Snake Lover
      is Chillin' with princess butter.
       
      I am:
      Geeky
       

      ReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Location
      Palm Beach County, FL
      Posts
      916
      Images
      2
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 04:31 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      With the indented kraft paper, it holds humidity well. I'm pretty sure the 100% recycled stuff will be similar with humidity. With my setup without spraying, there is 80% humidity on the cool side during the day and 71% at night. Warm side is 68% humidity during the day and 58-60% at night. During the day the heat is off and still gets to 90 degrees on the warm side which is why the humidity is so high.

    6. #6
      Snake Lover
      is Content
       
      I am:
      Innocent
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Oct 2013
      Location
      Eastern WV Panhandle
      Posts
      773
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-08-2017 05:32 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      Personally I don't care for aspen for all the reasons mentioned, unless it's for a species like my hognose or king snakes that don't have to stay super-humid and don't tend to play games with their water bowls.

      During warm weather my house stays humid enough that I can use newspaper for everything. That said, none of my snakes are in tanks and my BRB's are either in tubs or enclosures that hold humidity well.

      During the winter the house ambient humidity drops below 10% so I use cypess mulch. I won't necessarily use it for the whole enclosure as it's not cheap. Usually it's just under the cool side hide or covering up to 1/3 of the floor space, and the rest of the floor is covered in paper. It does help keep the humidity up without the mess associated with aspen shavings, and since it acts like a sponge you can mist just the cypress and not the paper, so keeping the humidity up doesn't turn the paper into a soggy mess.

    7. #7
      Snake Guru
      is probably underwater!
       
      I am:
      Friendly
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Mar 2011
      Location
      Arkansas, USA
      Posts
      2,975
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 10:36 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      Zaphod42, last time I bought any 'carpet', they sold it on big 12' wide rolls, by the foot, very economical. It doesn't shed pieces the way the "astro-turf" stuff does, and is very heat-safe too. Since I use UTH,
      I like that it doesn't impede the heat from rising into the cage either, the way many other options (thicker substrates) do. And you'll only have to have a "cutting party" once, to fit to your cages, not like the
      stuff you throw away. Having spare pieces cut & ready for a quick cage clean-up is very convenient. Like anything else, this is just an option, nothing is perfect for all applications.
      Zaphod42 and acephantom903 like this.

    8. #8
      Snake Lover
      This user has not set their status.
       
      I am:
      Cool
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Location
      A frozen tundra from the far beyond
      Posts
      643
      Images
      20
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      06-19-2017 08:54 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      I gave up on shavings long ago for many of the same reasons. I currently use the Red Rosin paper (Home Depot or Lowes, a huge roll is $12) cut and folded about 1/2 inch up the sides. It looks nice, but it isn't very absorbent so I lay newspaper underneath. I have found that misting the paper and then creasing it between the floor and walls holds it in place nicely.

      BTW... I just got bit... Thump thump... thump thump... thump thump... you know the throbbing lol.
      Zaphod42 and acephantom903 like this.

    9. #9
      Snake Maniac
      This user has not set their status.
       
      I am:
      ----
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
      Zaphod42's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2010
      Location
      Boston, MA
      Posts
      1,922
      Images
      2
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-15-2017 04:13 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      Quote Originally Posted by Kung Fu Joe View Post
      BTW... I just got bit... Thump thump... thump thump... thump thump... you know the throbbing lol.
      I got nailed on the thumb a couple of months ago. It was a decent bite but it was from a 4ft BCI male so it wasn't that bad. But for some reason my thumb is still kind of sore sometimes when I bend it : /
      acephantom903 likes this.
      “I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” -DA
      www.outworldreptiles.com

    10. #10
      Snake Guru
      is probably underwater!
       
      I am:
      Friendly
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Mar 2011
      Location
      Arkansas, USA
      Posts
      2,975
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 10:36 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod42 View Post
      I got nailed on the thumb a couple of months ago. It was a decent bite but it was from a 4ft BCI male so it wasn't that bad. But for some reason my thumb is still kind of sore sometimes when I bend it : /
      He probably left a few teeth in your thumb...they're hard to see, much less to remove. I had a "macho" friend who for years didn't care about getting bites...until his hand got infected from embedded teeth.

    11. #11
      Snake Maniac
      This user has not set their status.
       
      I am:
      ----
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
      Zaphod42's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2010
      Location
      Boston, MA
      Posts
      1,922
      Images
      2
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-15-2017 04:13 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      Quote Originally Posted by Noelle7206 View Post
      He probably left a few teeth in your thumb...they're hard to see, much less to remove. I had a "macho" friend who for years didn't care about getting bites...until his hand got infected from embedded teeth.
      Eek! I'm not even sure what to do for that. It only feels sore sometimes and then other days it's fine. I hate going to the doctor for anything because it usually ends up costing me hundreds of dollars only for them to tell me everything is fine. Maybe I'll just give him dirty looks every time I clean his cage or feed him and inform him that he'd made a very nice pair of boots.
      NoNameXII likes this.
      “I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” -DA
      www.outworldreptiles.com

    12. #12
      Snake Guru
      is probably underwater!
       
      I am:
      Friendly
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Mar 2011
      Location
      Arkansas, USA
      Posts
      2,975
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 10:36 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      I'm not sure how well snake teeth would show up on an x-ray? They're so tiny! No fun having a doctor dig around for them either. Your immune response may eventually push them to the surface, w/ any luck?
      I do know that really deep bites (from larger snakes) have sometimes caused nerve damage too...not fun either.

    13. #13
      Snake Lover
      This user has not set their status.
       
      I am:
      Cool
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Location
      A frozen tundra from the far beyond
      Posts
      643
      Images
      20
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      06-19-2017 08:54 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      This was a four foot nine incher (I had just measured her) on the wrist. No harm done... But the mark she left is about twice the size of her head... Guess she has a big mouth

    14. #14
      Snake Guru
      is probably underwater!
       
      I am:
      Friendly
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Mar 2011
      Location
      Arkansas, USA
      Posts
      2,975
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 10:36 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      Quote Originally Posted by Kung Fu Joe View Post
      This was a four foot nine incher (I had just measured her) on the wrist. No harm done... But the mark she left is about twice the size of her head... Guess she has a big mouth
      Glad you're going to make it!
      Kung Fu Joe likes this.

    15. #15
      Snake Lover
      This user has not set their status.
       
      I am:
      ----
       

      Reputation

      Join Date
      Aug 2014
      Posts
      261
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 08:50 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      I swear by Orchid bark it's lovely and dark coloured and makes display snakes look absolutely fabulous !

      Great for holding a bit of moisture if that's a requirement ...


      Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
      Noelle7206 and acephantom903 like this.

    16. #16
      Newbie!
      This user has not set their status.
       
      I am:
      ----
       

      Reputation

      Join Date
      Jun 2007
      Posts
      1
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-15-2017 12:35 AM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      Quote Originally Posted by Noelle7206 View Post
      For snakes that need more humidity, I do like orchid bark...but it's harder to find (here, anyway) & not cheap. I like the corrugated kraft-paper stuff from U-line, but cutting it to fit was a hassle, and because it's

      paper, it will get soggy with spilled water. (used it for desert snakes-rattlesnakes etc) I don't blame you for ranting about wood shavings...I've never used them for snakes. Few of my snakes need humidity so I

      mostly use a mix of Carefresh 'natural' & my clean shredded paper (mail etc, & never the outer envelopes btw). The Carefresh is a bit too clumpy by itself, the paper shreds are cheap & add fluff. When I kept a

      large boa, I actually preferred to have several pieces cut to fit of indoor-outdoor carpet (the all-nylon backless kind): it's cheap, indestructible, doesn't harbor mold if wet, offers wonderful traction for the snake,

      allows heat to rise thru (from UTH), can be hand-washed & even bleached to kill germs (holds it's color too!), very eco-friendly (did I mention it lasts forever?), and is just thick & stiff enough to stay flat. I suggest

      cutting the pieces a few inches longer on all sides, then cutting a square "notch" out of each corner...this way you can fold up each side. It would take a determined burrower to go underneath it, & larger boas just

      don't usually try. It comes in great natural-looking colors (brown, tan, green etc) is widely available (large home improvement stores) & while hand-washing (in the tub or large sink) isn't much fun, it drips-dry very

      quickly (remember it's all nylon) and if you want the humidity, you can use it slightly damp anyway. Just shake the water out. You can spot clean it too, of course. That's my 2 cents...

      One word of caution about carpet: Make SURE your snake never hooks it's teeth into it...so only feed using tongs or on a "plate"!

      PS- Leftover pieces of indoor/outdoor carpet have many uses...for example, can be rolled up (& fastened) to form a snake 'hide'.
      Do you have a link for this carpet? All I have here is polyester and I think it has backing on it.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    17. #17
      Snake Guru
      is probably underwater!
       
      I am:
      Friendly
       

      ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation

      Join Date
      Mar 2011
      Location
      Arkansas, USA
      Posts
      2,975
      User Info Achievements / Awards Thanks / Tagging Info vBActivity Stats
      Last Visited
      10-17-2017 10:36 PM

      Default Re: The never ending substrate question

      Quote Originally Posted by LoungeLizard View Post
      Do you have a link for this carpet? All I have here is polyester and I think it has backing on it.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Sorry, just saw this post- this is what I'm talking about: (a few examples...very tough & useful stuff, also for patios, boats & pick-up trucks, etc)
      BTW, this stuff can be cut with normal fabric shears. Some is "ribbed", some is flat-textured, both kinds come in nice colors & work equally-well.

      As I've said before, it's nearly impossible to wear out in snake-cages...it's washable (in tub or laundry sink, as it's a little stiff) & CAN be disinfected
      with a little bleach (no color change) though don't use TOO much, as you MUST get the smell of bleach totally out to use near snakes & live animals.

      After you hand-wash it, a few hard shakes outside removes most of the water, so if you want to add humidity you could use it right away, otherwise
      it drip dries fast & easily. I've never seen it mold either.

      http://www.homedepot.com/p/TrafficMA...144H/203240740

      http://www.homedepot.com/p/TrafficMA...72FT/206535308

     

     

    Similar Threads

    1. Substrate question
      By ccfive5 in forum Caging
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 07-11-2011, 09:51 PM
    2. Substrate Question
      By hertzogcraig in forum Boa Care
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 10-02-2009, 04:10 PM
    3. Substrate Question
      By tsshields in forum Boa Care
      Replies: 3
      Last Post: 09-30-2009, 01:51 PM
    4. Substrate question
      By Eric in forum Boa Care
      Replies: 9
      Last Post: 05-18-2003, 10:55 AM
    5. SUBSTRATE Question...what do you use?
      By Todd in forum Boa Care
      Replies: 15
      Last Post: 03-29-2003, 05:05 AM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts

    WE STRONGLY SUPPORT


    usark_square

      Fauna Top Sites Reptile Related Top Sites Strictly Reptiles