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  • Need some wisdom of you boys...

    alright all,
    i do hope your seasons going well and everythings ok with you all..

    i have rather confusing dilema with one of my bigh girls...

    shes 11.6ft and weighed in at 2st dead on when i first put her into cooling..

    she was bred to a male anery type2 owned by a friend as all of my other pairs were paired and full up by then..

    well shed ovualted on the 22nd of may 2009 and weighed after just in at 2.5st

    she then increased up to 3.2st over the period..

    she has pre lay shed on the shed 14th august which was a 16day blue stage....

    by ovualtion she would have been due on the 24th august 2009 and had dropped small and little bits of what seemed to be waxys..

    from then untill present she is still dropping waxy looking stools and urates but not fecies as she is still off her food there nothing to digest..

    now by my calculations that would make her 179days from ovualtion,

    any ideas?

    shes now gone into the hissy stage of the process and no interest in food etc..

    any ideas people?

    I am now like others doubting her being gravid but she is still retaining the lower third of her bodys girth and weight, the top of her has slimmed since the pairing...

    she is at a constant 84f cold end and has been maintianed at that constantly since they were paired!!!

    any more info just ask i cant seem to think if i have added all that is needed to have some sort or prognosis.

    thanks in advance

    Jon

  • #2
    Re: Need some wisdom of you boys...

    Well,
    I'm not one of the "boys", but I'll try to answer your question.
    OK, provided she's actually gravid/pregnant....

    It sounds like....... She's not due yet.

    I came up with a due date of Nov 27th.

    Here's how I came up with it.

    You said her starting weight was 2st. As I recall a 1st = 14 pounds. So, if that's correct, then 2st seems a little on the underweight side for an 11' 6" snake. Then when she ovulated her weight was 2.5st. That's still on the low side for weight. Anyway... back to how I got the date.

    You don't say if your female is eating, but she does continue to gain weight. In order for a Boa to form nice healthy folicles they need to take on extra fluids and have adequate fat reserves. At the height of her weight is most probably when she "really" ovulated. That first swelling you saw was most likely a pre-ov swelling. Since she sounds on the thinner side, a pre-ov swell would definately look like an ovulation.

    Now, most boas ovulate more quickly after the pre-ov swell, but I'm guessing you removed the male after you thought he had the job done. So, I'm "guessing" the female went on to finish forming the folicles and ovualtion "without" the male being present. So, she'd have to be gravid/pregnant from "retained sperm".

    That "shed" she had on Aug 14th.... I'm guess that's the real POS date. Her weight gain up to that point could also suggest it as well.

    So, if you count 15 weeks from Aug 14th, you have Nov 27th.

    That's how I came up with that due date.

    Now, what if she's "NOT" gravid/pregnant..... Well, if she's not then she needs to go to the vet. If she's not gravid/pregnant, then something is serously wrong.

    Have you noticed any "behaviour" that would indicated that she's gravid/pregnant?? What is her "body temp??? Gravid/pregnant boas stay in the 86 to 88 degree range. That's 30/31 in Celcius.

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    • #3
      Re: Need some wisdom of you boys...

      the ov was based on the second stage of the swell, she had her twist then ovulated and as usual swelled twice...

      the male was left in untill well after the ov and he had lost interest! i thought i had mentioned she has eant since one month before introduction.

      now by no means was she underweight, if i am honest i have more than enought patience in this to be breeding underweight...

      she was a good solid girth and firm..

      right now im with you on the shed cycle count also as i said its been a very confusing year.. all of my other breedings have been fine and like clock work but this girly is actually at a friends house being bred there so i havent been there veryday to keep track im am just working off the paper work that my friend has logged for me.

      i really appreciate the help, with it being overlayed info i may have misread the paperwork..

      i am awaiting a temp gun as i dont have one since my last one was dropped..

      thanks Jon

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Need some wisdom of you boys...

        Do you have any pictures of the female prior to breeding? Do you have any recent pictures of her showing how large her rear half is?

        Are you sure of her length and weight prior to breeding?

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        • #5
          Re: Need some wisdom of you boys...

          not 100% possative to be honest, its all on the paperwork but she was weighed by a person holding her on a set of scales as shes too big to fit on any others..

          i will see if i can sort some pics the only ones i may have are on a friends phone..

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Need some wisdom of you boys...

            Originally posted by carisma02uk View Post
            the ov was based on the second stage of the swell, she had her twist then ovulated and as usual swelled twice...
            OK, was this something you observed?? Was this something that was observed by your friend, where the snake is being bred? If it was observed by your friend, how much experience does your friend have with breeding boas?

            Sometimes swellings can be "very" deceving. What "looks" like an obvious swelling could simply be the way the female is laying. Some females, when laying relaxed, will have signs of scale seperation and look "swollen".

            Originally posted by carisma02uk View Post
            the male was left in untill well after the ov and he had lost interest! i thought i had mentioned she has eant since one month before introduction.
            Sometimes it will appear that a male has lost interest. Males can "take breaks" from breeding. Some will take as much as a couple of weeks. Of course, most times it's just a few days. If the male was in shed, then he would have been more likely to slow down or seem to lose interest. It's more likely for a male to slow down or "seem" to lose interest for a couple of weeks while in shed.

            BTW not all males slow down while in shed. Some just keep going and going no matter what.

            Originally posted by carisma02uk View Post
            now by no means was she underweight, if i am honest i have more than enought patience in this to be breeding underweight...
            I'll have to go by what you observed to determine if she's underwieght or not. From the lengths/weight you posted.... To me that would indicate she was thin for her "length". I'm not sure how much an 11' 6" boa should weigh, but I'd guess it would be more than 28 pounds. I have a girl that's just over 7 feet and she weighs 20 pounds.

            Originally posted by carisma02uk View Post
            she was a good solid girth and firm..
            I'll have to go by what you observed as to whether or not she was in proper shape to breed. I can only guess that the weight and/or lenght was incorrect.

            Originally posted by carisma02uk View Post
            right now im with you on the shed cycle count also as i said its been a very confusing year.. all of my other breedings have been fine and like clock work but this girly is actually at a friends house being bred there so i havent been there veryday to keep track im am just working off the paper work that my friend has logged for me.
            I'm glad that your other breedings are going as planned. It's nearly impossible, unless your friend has experience with breeding boas, to get accurate info without seeing what's going on yourself.

            A person with breeding experience will noticed things that others will not. It sounds like the swellings that were observed "could" have been mis-identified.

            However, if they weren't mis-identified, then you boa needs to see a vet. If she actually ovualted back in May, she could be "bound up". Meaning she "could" have dead babies/slugs in her and needs help getting them out.

            What has me puzzled if the weight gain your boa had. To go from 2st/28 pounds to 3.2st/44.8 pounds???? Then when you add that she wasn't eating during this whole time??

            As far as I know, boas don't gain a "huge" amount of weight during breeding/gestation. Sure they drink extra water to help with forming folicles, but they also rely on stored up fat as well.

            So, they might gain a few pounds, but your girl gained 16.8 pounds. That's a lot of weight to pack on. Especially since your girl was only drinking water. The baby boas can't add weight that's not there. They're taking away from the mother. So, any weight gain had to come from water. Yeah, this part really has me puzzled.

            I think I'd take her to the vet. Just to be sure.

            BTW what does she weigh now??

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            • #7
              Re: Need some wisdom of you boys...

              i need a few words of wisdom my self im new to boa breeding and i have a 5foot 5inch female strip boa and i was wondering when is the best time to breed and how big should the male be that i pair her with?

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