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CA vs Columbian morphs ???

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  • CA vs Columbian morphs ???

    so i've been wondering...

    compared to columbian boas, why is it that there seem to be so many more *new* CA morphs? and why do they seem to be so much more common (and thus less expensive)?

    i mean, look at this: http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=737137 a CA t+ motley, for $850!!! that thing looks AMAZING!!!

    take the t+ albinos for example... the CA t+ are all over KS and at shows, and aren't all that expensive - at least compared to the columbian t+.

    is it really just that they've been around longer? or am i just seeing things?

    there's also the aztecs, the bloods, the leopards, etc... i mean, why aren't there columbian versions of those? there's a columbian motley and a CA motley... is the columbian a cross like the hypo originally was?

    larry? can you enlighten me? anyone? maybe i'm just imagining it...

    i want a columbian blood, and a columbian aztec, and a columbian leopard! NOT CROSSES
    Last edited by dangles; 12-04-2009, 06:37 PM.

  • #2
    Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

    It goes kind of hand in hand. The CA morphs like Nic T + and Even CA Motley Boas I believe started out less expensive.
    So at that point many people (not all) thought wow I want to get into morphs but I don't want to pay the higher prices for Colombians , I'll get into CA Morphs
    Alot people started going that route and are producing alot of CA stuff.
    Plus I've heard people say CA Boas are more prolific than Colombian counterparts

    Then you have the Morphs like Leopard Boas, Blood Boas around for many
    years now 7-8 yrs or more that have been bred into the Colombian Morphs

    There does appear to be more Morphs originating from the C.A. countries

    Aztecs are said to be a Colombian Morph but in reality they may actually
    have originated from a C.A. Boa

    They don't know the exact origin of that original male it was a class room pet

    The Blood Boas there is no such thing as a pure Colombian Blood
    Blood Boas have been crossed into Colombian Boas much like Hypo's
    have been and Leopards too.

    Lar M
    Boas By Klevitz

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    • #3
      Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

      CA boas are easier to breed...

      2005, T+ Albino Nicaraguans were selling for $25k. VPI T+ Colombians were selling for $15k.

      The Nics were more prolific, breeding at younger ages and had better luck breeding multiple females (might get a male to hit 2-3 girls where Colombians you're likely to just get one if any).

      Prices came down fast.

      CA Motleys when they hit the market were $12k. At the same time, Colombian Motleys were $8k.

      It is not true that the CA morphs started cheaper. They did drop faster though. Perhaps because in general they are not as colorful, they tend to be darker boas.

      Bloods came from El Salvador Boas. They've been bred to a bunch of other locales and turned into ugly mutts. Pure CA Bloods are the most beautiful Blood boas.

      Leopards are Sonoran and have been bred into Colombian morphs. Being Sonoran the cooling needed for breeding makes them much harder to breed, and risky to cross with Colombians that have different breeding requirements. When Tom Burke bred an Albino Colombian male to a Leopard Sonoran female, he lost the Albino to a respritory infection. The Albino Leopards later produced have shown to be incredible, but such cross breeding is not without risk.

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      • #4
        Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

        Originally posted by ChrisGilbert View Post
        CA boas are easier to breed...

        2005, T+ Albino Nicaraguans were selling for $25k. VPI T+ Colombians were selling for $15k.

        The Nics were more prolific, breeding at younger ages and had better luck breeding multiple females (might get a male to hit 2-3 girls where Colombians you're likely to just get one if any).

        Prices came down fast.

        CA Motleys when they hit the market were $12k. At the same time, Colombian Motleys were $8k.

        It is not true that the CA morphs started cheaper. They did drop faster though. Perhaps because in general they are not as colorful, they tend to be darker boas.

        Bloods came from El Salvador Boas. They've been bred to a bunch of other locales and turned into ugly mutts. Pure CA Bloods are the most beautiful Blood boas.

        Leopards are Sonoran and have been bred into Colombian morphs. Being Sonoran the cooling needed for breeding makes them much harder to breed, and risky to cross with Colombians that have different breeding requirements. When Tom Burke bred an Albino Colombian male to a Leopard Sonoran female, he lost the Albino to a respritory infection. The Albino Leopards later produced have shown to be incredible, but such cross breeding is not without risk.
        Chris Did you mean to say $2500.00 (twenty Five hundred) ?

        I'm not trying start something but I'm extremely certain that in 2005
        T Positive Nics were less than $25,000.00

        In fact in 2004 VPI were listed for $18,500 and I'm pretty certain I remember T Nics listed at about $12,500 at that point.....?

        Not to mention I specifically remember people saying they liked the T Nics more and I remember it being more about price.

        They'd say I'm not paying $18,000 for a VPI T I can get a Nic T for $12,000

        In 2002 they may have been $25,000

        Lar M
        Boas By Klevitz

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        • #5
          Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

          thanks for the great responses, guys!

          chris, you need to come around more often! between you and larry, we'd have just about the entire history of boas in captivity on this site!

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          • #6
            Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

            Originally posted by Boa Amarali View Post
            Chris Did you mean to say $2500.00 (twenty Five hundred) ?

            I'm not trying start something but I'm extremely certain that in 2005
            T Positive Nics were less than $25,000.00

            In fact in 2004 VPI were listed for $18,500 and I'm pretty certain I remember T Nics listed at about $12,500 at that point.....?

            Not to mention I specifically remember people saying they liked the T Nics more and I remember it being more about price.

            They'd say I'm not paying $18,000 for a VPI T I can get a Nic T for $12,000

            In 2002 they may have been $25,000
            It wasn't until 2004 or 2005 that Tom Burke produced the first T+. He had 2.1 of the original 4.1.

            Males were definitely $25k then. Females may have been $12.5K in '05. 2005 was my first year at Daytona and the first time I had seen them in person at Tom's table.

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            • #7
              Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

              Originally posted by dangles View Post
              thanks for the great responses, guys!

              chris, you need to come around more often! between you and larry, we'd have just about the entire history of boas in captivity on this site!
              Such is the unfortunate circumstance of college life.

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              • #8
                Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

                Originally posted by ChrisGilbert View Post
                It wasn't until 2004 or 2005 that Tom Burke produced the first T+. He had 2.1 of the original 4.1.

                Males were definitely $25k then. Females may have been $12.5K in '05. 2005 was my first year at Daytona and the first time I had seen them in person at Tom's table.
                Yes in 2004 I talked with Tom Burke at Tinley and saw the Nic T's he had.
                I must be confused because I could swear they were priced at $12,500,
                but like you say maybe I was looking at Fems priced like that.

                I had just got my '04 Male VPI and fem Het and I was on cloud 9 about that


                I remember being very surprised in early '06 I think the Nic T's already went
                down to $8500 if I remember correctly again.

                Then went down $5000,$4500 & $4000 really quickly it seemed quick to me anyways

                I think alot were produced by Jeremy and I'm not really
                not certain what Tom's production was

                I was already not paying as close of attention to the Nic T project.

                I know alot of people became upset when the bottom sort of fell out of that project but that was when the Jungle went into over production

                I swear that threw a bolt into the whole works
                all Morphs suffered after that '06 season.

                Lar M
                Boas By Klevitz

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                • #9
                  Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

                  I was definitely wrong Chris here is some info I got

                  an ad that Amie printed out on 6/29/04, T positives hadn't been born yet but het T positives were offered for $12,500 a pair.

                  By 8/10/04 they had been produced and they were $25,000 for a T positive female and $40,000 for a T positive male! Hets had dropped down to $10,000 a pair

                  By 11/28/05 the prices had dropped to $15,000 for a T pos female, $25,000 for a male, $35,000 for a pair, and $7500 for a pair of hets.

                  I was entirely wrong

                  Lar M
                  Boas By Klevitz

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                  • #10
                    Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

                    Good research Larry. So it was the males at Daytona in '05 that I was thinking of. Dang were '04 prices high. I think those are the highest publicly advertised prices on a boa morph.

                    Talking of price drops. Spring of '08, T+ Motley Nics were at $7500. They were $3500 by fall. This year when the first litters were born, $1500. I got one from Tom.

                    Tom sold most of his T+ stock to Pete Kahl. He did keep Motley stuff, and has some DHs for various projects.
                    Pete and Jeremy mass produced they heck out of them. And prices moved just like everything big breeders pump out in huge numbers.

                    Shame too, Tom kept them the purist. Aside from using the CA Motley and Bloods, his were pure Nic. Everyone else just seemed to breed them willy nilly. I saw an ad recently for an adult pair of hets. Appearance wise they were CA, but the female was 7ft and male 5ft. Nics just don't get that big.

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                    • #11
                      Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

                      I didn't realize Tom got rid of those beautiful original pure Nic T's he had.
                      WOW that's just floors me, they were gorgeous and pure Nicarguan stock
                      I'm saddened people don't see the benefit of keeping some Locality Morphs pure
                      Seems like a no brainer to me, what are ya gonna do , that's the way it is ...

                      Lar M
                      Boas By Klevitz

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                      • #12
                        Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

                        It would be interesting to get prices from 2004-present of T+ Nicaraguans, using advertised prices from Tom Burke, Jeremy Stone, and Pete Kahl. Where there are ranges at a given time, taking the average. Just to plot the shift in market value.

                        I've had a long standing rule of never going over $3k on a single boa, not actually peaking $2500. It's proven to avoid high risk of losing to mass production.

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                        • #13
                          Re: CA vs Columbian morphs ???

                          Originally posted by Boa Amarali View Post
                          I didn't realize Tom got rid of those beautiful original pure Nic T's he had.
                          WOW that's just floors me, they were gorgeous and pure Nicarguan stock
                          I'm saddened people don't see the benefit of keeping some Locality Morphs pure
                          Seems like a no brainer to me, what are ya gonna do , that's the way it is ...
                          Never got proof that his original 2.1 were sold. Just that most of his T+ stock, around the time he was selling off a lot of adult breeders. I really was hoping to get a pure Nic T+. When that appeared impossible went to my favorite CA morph, the T+ Motley.

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