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  • Albino?

    What genetically make the kahl strain and sharp strain of boas incompatable? I just dont understand because they are both albinos. Also what makes them two seperate strains of albino?

  • #2
    Re: Albino?

    The fact they have proven to be separate genes.
    You breed a kahl to a sharp you will get double hets for both strains.

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    • #3
      Re: Albino?

      Is it fatal like breeding two motleys together? or??

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      • #4
        Re: Albino?

        No, they're just completely normal looking offspring.

        They're just different strains. Different triggers along the DNA strand that produce a similar result. Neither are lethal genes, and it's theoretically possible to have double homozygous sharp & kahl strain individuals, but you wouldn't be able to prove which strain(s) were actually homozygous until they were old enough to breed, and probably wouldn't be much different to one or the other visually speaking.

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        • #5
          Re: Albino?

          My wife, who does DNA typing for a living, has explained it this way. There are many recessive genes that result in deafness in humans. If one parent carries one gene, and the other carries a totally different gene, their offspring won't be deaf. Same with albinism. The parents have to carry the same mutant gene for the recessive trait to be expressed. Sharp and Kahl are completely different genes that result in a similar, yet distinct phenotype.

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          • #6
            Re: Albino?

            The production of melanin is controlled by several different derivatives of tyrosine. A genetic defect that disrupts each process or the entire process can result in amelanism. Sharp and Kahl both appear to achieve the same result through different means. The incompatibility stems from the defective allele residing on different locuses. We don't have a map of the boa contrictor genome to know exactly where.

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            • #7
              Re: Albino?

              Isn't it basically they are not located on the same locus or allelle (and no I don't know what those are :P)

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              • #8
                Re: Albino?

                Ok, I get the general idea and now understand how there can be different strains of mutation but will definately be studying a bit more to understand it better. Genetics can definately be a bit confusing when you a newer to it. Thanks for the help.

                Got a question about the Motleys now thats its been brought up. Why is breeding to Motleys together fatal? How are motley litters produced if two motlyes cant breed?

                Ive been keeping reptiles in general since I can remeber and have 2 breedings under my belt with boas but I want to learn how the genetic make-up of theese guys affects their morph, compatabilty to one another and overall long term health issues breeding may cause. I do understand basic genetics but never really moved passed the "het, homo, codom etc..." things. Time for me to starts learning more.

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                • #9
                  Re: Albino?

                  Think of it like this... To make a Sharp albino you need to complete the circle pattern, to make Kahl albinos you need to complete the diamond. Mix two animals with the circle gene or two animals with the diamond gene to get the desired result. Breeding one animal with the circle gene and one animal with the diamond gene together and you will not get either albino but instead MAY get babies that carry half the circle or half the diamond gene. I did that little drawing on paint just about a minute ago. Hopefully that helps. If not, disregard lol.

                  ALBINO.jpg


                  Originally posted by nkbreptiles View Post
                  Is it fatal like breeding two motleys together? or??
                  Its not really "fatal" because some offspring do live. The ones that havent had much luck are the super motleys. All the other offspring in the litters seem to do fine.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Albino?

                    Originally posted by USMC32 View Post
                    Got a question about the Motleys now thats its been brought up. Why is breeding to Motleys together fatal? How are motley litters produced if two motlyes cant breed?
                    Breeding two motleys together is not fatal to the parents. And only fatal to some of the babies.

                    There are a pair of genes at the motley locus in the chromosomes. The first gene can be either a motley mutant gene or a normal gene. The second gene can be either a motley mutant gene or a normal gene. This gives four possible gene pairs:
                    1. normal - normal --> normal boa
                    2. normal - motley --> motley boa
                    3. motley - normal --> motley boa
                    4. motley - motley --> super motley boa, which dies young.

                    As gene order does not matter, a normal - motley gene pair is the same as a motley - normal gene pair. This lets us reduce the four gene pairs to three possible gene pairs.

                    There are two possible matings that produce motley young -- motley x normal and motley x motley.

                    motley x normal --> 1/2 motley, 1/2 normal
                    motley x motley --> 1/4 normal, 2/4 motley, 1/4 super motley (dies young)
                    (Fractions are the odds of a given outcome for each baby, not for a litter.)

                    Nobody knows why the babies with two motley mutant genes die young. Most likely some physiological process gets screwed up so badly that it kills the snake. But I have no clue as to which process.

                    Hope this helps.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Albino?

                      Originally posted by USMC32 View Post
                      Ok, I get the general idea and now understand how there can be different strains of mutation but will definately be studying a bit more to understand it better. Genetics can definately be a bit confusing when you a newer to it. Thanks for the help.

                      Got a question about the Motleys now thats its been brought up. Why is breeding to Motleys together fatal? How are motley litters produced if two motlyes cant breed?

                      Ive been keeping reptiles in general since I can remeber and have 2 breedings under my belt with boas but I want to learn how the genetic make-up of theese guys affects their morph, compatabilty to one another and overall long term health issues breeding may cause. I do understand basic genetics but never really moved passed the "het, homo, codom etc..." things. Time for me to starts learning more.

                      Paul H answered your question with the full details , I'll answer
                      with a shorter or simpler type version.

                      The Motley simply put is Codominant mutation. That means when paired to another normal/Wild type Boa approximately half the offspring in the first breeding will acquire 1 mutant Motley gene.

                      Genes sit on a kind of Branch in pairs many different pairs. When the certain
                      gene pairs that influences a certain trait are matched together
                      the trait will become visible.

                      Dominant traits only need one of these mutant genes to become visible.

                      Recessive traits need two of the mutant genes to become visible.

                      When ever there is one Gene of a mutant trait present it is in the Heterozygous state.

                      When ever there is two Genes of a mutant trait present it is in the
                      Homozygous state.



                      Information
                      There are approximately over 30,000 genes in the human body. In 2001 the Human Genome Project, a consortium of over 1000 scientists worldwide, finished sifting through the 3 billion bits of DNA in each human cell to map the ordering all of the human genes.



                      A gene can be defined as a region of DNA that controls a hereditary characteristic. It usually corresponds to a sequence used in the production of a specific protein or RNA.
                      A gene carries biological information in a form that must be copied and transmitted from each cell to all its progeny. This includes the entire functional unit: coding DNA sequences, non-coding regulatory DNA sequences, and introns.
                      Genes can be as short as 1000 base pairs or as long as several hundred thousand base pairs. It can even be carried by more than one chromosome.
                      The estimate for the number of genes in humans has decreased as our knowledge has increased. As of 2001, humans are thought to have between 30,000 and 40,000 genes.




                      Lar M
                      Boas By Klevitz

                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Re: Albino?

                        Is there a generalized location where all the boa morphs are explained. By that I mean a list of all the boa morphs, their history of how the became and what genetic morphs went into them to produce them and if they are dominant, co-dominant etc...??? Similar to the Leopard Gecko wiki I guess.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Albino?

                          Originally posted by USMC32 View Post
                          Is there a generalized location where all the boa morphs are explained. By that I mean a list of all the boa morphs, their history of how the became and what genetic morphs went into them to produce them and if they are dominant, co-dominant etc...??? Similar to the Leopard Gecko wiki I guess.
                          if there's not i say we should make a sticky thread here about it. everyone can pick a morph they have post a pic. maybe a description... what you think mods? bad idea?


                          or larry can just do it, he does have a pic of every boa ever produced lol jk lar

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                          • #14
                            Re: Albino?

                            Larry IS the Boa Wiki. He knows everything about every litter ever produced! Or at least it seems that way lol. Lar, I wish I had a 1/10th of the knowledge you have.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Albino?

                              Originally posted by USMC32 View Post
                              Is there a generalized location where all the boa morphs are explained. By that I mean a list of all the boa morphs, their history of how the became and what genetic morphs went into them to produce them and if they are dominant, co-dominant etc...??? Similar to the Leopard Gecko wiki I guess.
                              This will probably help , it covers MOST , not all, but pretty freaking close!

                              Boa Morphs

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