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  • Miss my rtb family!

    So if you dont like stories, skip past all this and move on to the pictures. This is going to be a LONG post. I use to be a very extremely active member on here and have recently just faded away. Im not a sponsor or anything so nobody porbably noticed but I miss you guys! So story time, going to try and keep this as short as possible. Im going to preface this whole thing by saying I love snakes, and have ever since I was a tiny little kid. It took me moving out of my mothers house, finding this group and meeting the one and only [MENTION=6926]weird_science04[/MENTION] and really being able to dive into what I love. I never could of imagined being where I am at today though and have a lot of mixed feelings about where I am at and what I am doing. So starting about 18-24 months back My girlfriend found a craigslist post of a man seeking help to clean his snakes, and was willing to pay someone to do it! SO, like flies on stink I called him up and left a voicemail. He ended up picking me over about 30 other calls because he said I was the only one who didnt ask about the money. For me, getting to play with 20 large snakes was just awesome! I would of paid him, but shhh he doesn't need to know. SO i showed up and these snakes where healthy, but living in the worste conditions I have ever seen. It is by far no excuse, but the guy does own a very nice car restoration shop and genuinely works very very long hours, which is why he was looking to hire someone to take care of the animals. There was months... and months of molding poop and sheds in every single cage. To begin with he had, roughly 20 to 25 snakes. about 3/4 of those where in 4 and 6 foot cages. I am not kidding when I say the first cleaning took me well over 10 hours. So I went back every week or 2 and cleaned cages, and he paid me. I was in heaven. We did that for about 3 or 4 months and he started talking about breeding when he found out just how much of a snake enthusiast I was. He had tried several years before and because of work had not been successful. So after some serious thought, he decided that with my help, it was time he finally bred. It wasnt until after we bred that I truly found out his intentions. We agreed for the babies that would be born in 2015, because he and I both work 50-80 hour weeks that I would take care of the babies and he would the adults. At this point he is no longer paying me, by my choice. I figured payment would come from babies we sell but I personally was not looking at this as a money opportunity, he was. So come 2015 babies are born I have expanded my amount of pets ( non breeders ). He is big into the albino stuff and as I found out this year, you get what you pay for. He is all about the craigslist buys. He loves trying to find nice snakes for cheap to get them for " a steal ". So 2 females that where suppose to produce snows proved out to be total lies sold to him. 1 proved not het anery throwing a ton of normals and albinos and the other not even het albino or het anery and gave us 25 normals. This is NOT what I signed up for. I have spent the last 3 months having more conversations with people than I care to admit to try and sell these animals to proper homes, but as many people know, the sad truth is there are too many normals that need rescued before new babies can be sold. This whole time of taking care of babies I have not been back to his place to see the adults as im working 60+ hour weeks and another 10+ hours a week just keeping up with my animals and the now 70 snake babies we have. He is constantly texting me these $300 animals he is finding for sale and in August i went over to check on the adults. They where in the same conditions I found them 18 months ago. This guy says he loves snakes but when packing the BABIES up when going to vend at the local reptile show 2 months ago he had to use forceps because he is so FREAKING jumpy and nervous around the snakes. He doesnt get them out and openly admits he is trying to make good money off them. I have tried getting other people involved and they cannot and will not take his animals because poop in cages is not enough to be considered animal creulty enough for snakes apparently. He does feed and water them properly and that about it. SOO... here I am wanting to back out completely but for the sake of these animals I can't I am vending at this and next weekends shows and then the rest will be wholesaled. I got in way over my head with someone who just wants to produce and that is something I am not okay with. He can't even handle is own dang animals without hooking them. I had a very serious conversation with him after going back and finding the adult animals under those conditions and he is taking better care of them now. Scrutinize all you want but I have decided to go one more breeding season with this guy, giving him the benefit of the doubt. A lot has changed in the last 60 days. Because of his work hours he fully knows he cant do this without me, he has nobody else who will deal with the large snakes he has. He is also well aware that I am anal about the overall taking care of the animal and that if he repeats anything I WILL take all of the babies and adults that I can and he will never see or hear from me again. I will report him to animal control and be done with it. He understands there is no excuse for dirty animals and we have worked on finding proper homes for any breeding animal that will produce anything of low quality that we will struggle to find a home for. He understands I want to hear nothing about some craigslist animal someone has as a pet and he wants to buy as a breeder just because its cheap. I won't do it and if he does it HE will be taking care of the babies, NOT ME. I refuse to be a puppy mill for snakes which is what last breeding season turned into and its embarassing for me as an animal lover deeper than I can say or show. As far as this next season, he DOES have a few incredible animals. I have invested in a few of my own and what he doesnt know is that this will be the last year I work with him. He is already underway for this season and has honestly shown a big change, but I have seen that he can revert very quickly. He is doing a lot less pairings this year and the ones he is doing, are much higher quality to where finding homes should not be difficult. I have 2 snakes I have purchased as beautiful breeders for the future for the direction of a personal project I want to do. Im going to make sure these babies from next season are taken care of and then im stepping away from him so that he can no longer breed. I know it sounds silly but its the facts. With this Job being the owner he doesnt have the time to take care of the babies and he knows it more than I do. Last year was his first time in 7 years being able to breed and he openly admits its because he has someone who is taking half the weight. So without me, I like to believe he cannot continue to pump baby snakes into the market that will just end up crammed in a petstore because he wants to buy cheap animals for an attempt at a quick turn-around profit. Im sure this story is all over the place but a lot has happened in the last 12 months. Most of my time after work is spent trying to find homes for these animals and not being here on RTB like I use to. Hopefully this next season will be a much smoother and better one, and then I can part ways and do what I want, properly. So, what say you? Here are pictures of some of his and my stuff for viewing pleasure. Its been a bumpy ride.

    Our Pastel Sunglow Male



    My Pride and Joy Motley Sunglow said to be 100% het anery 66% poss het genetic stripe. This season will tell.





    My One and Only Scarlet from Star. This suriname never leaves me without a smile!



    My Guyana, unknown lineage




    Our Sharp Albino Male that is for sale, cleaning tub shot



    His Snow male that looks very similar to His moonglow male, except the eyes are vastly different



    His moonglow



    Our Snow Motley that after this season he will never lay hands on again, this is an idea of whats acceptable as an alright clean, not to dirty cage. Nothing compared to the others im not willing to show
    Last edited by ldydrgn; 09-05-2015, 06:09 PM. Reason: curse word using characters to replace letters. Against TOS. Changed the word.

  • #2
    Re: Miss my rtb family!

    It sounds like you're doing your best. I think it would be best if he didn't breed any more because breeders are supposed to have a passion for their animals. Animals like snakes which don't have a real functional purpose like food or work are great for making people happy. People who don't care... they don't deserve them. Those are beautiful snakes. It is sad thinking they were living in such bad living conditions.

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    • #3
      Re: Miss my rtb family!

      It's good to see you back! You are clearly acting out of concern for the condition of the larger animals of this guy, but have qualms about the future of the babies you are producing.

      You
      obviously care about the welfare of animals, so while I or anyone else may have an opinion about this situation or what you should do going forward, you are person of free will and are going to have to decide if going through with another breeding season with this guy, and the results and implications of it going forward, is something that meshes with your ideals and beliefs about how animals should be treated and/or cared for.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Miss my rtb family!

        As you are finding out, people seldom change. Personally, I could not & WOULD not work with such a person...I like snakes too much to facilitate their abuse, whether it's for breeding or just plain old hoarding & neglect.

        Very sad (pathetic!) to keep producing so many animals that will have no hope of decent homes. If you can't decide whether it's right or wrong, just imagine yourself as one of his snakes...maybe then you'll know what
        to do.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Miss my rtb family!

          Sorry you're going through this. I remember some past posts you'd made about this guy and thought at the time he was a trainwreck.

          Since he wants to breed as a profitable business, be emphatic that means keeping numbers low and quality high - an adult normal female eats just as much as a junglow. Suggest that due to time constraints he cut back on the number of adult breeders to a dozen or less, with a ratio of 2 females per male. Keep the best quality critters and sell off everything else.

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          • #6
            Re: Miss my rtb family!

            TC, good for you for making the decision to break away from this guy. This partnership is like oil and water. He is in it for the money and you for the animals.

            Best

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Miss my rtb family!

              This sort of thing seems happens in many "retail" venues. Some people try to go straight for the money. THIS IS NOT OK.
              When it is come to live animals, they will pay the consequences. As consumer we need to be aware of these tipes and make our purchases from (reptile breeders and hobbyists) as you will read in many of the books out there. Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Miss my rtb family!

                "...As consumer we need to be aware of these [types] and make our purchases from (reptile breeders and hobbyists) as you will read in many of the books out there."

                But you still need to question the reputation...try to check references independently...don't just call the number (of a friend!?) that they hand you either. Best of all, SEE for yourself how they do things whenever
                possible.

                For example, and I won't name names here, but there was a breeder who talked a good game, but when 'they' posted a video showing how things were done in their snake-room, there was abundant cross-contamination
                between cages (allowing for IBD or any other health issues that may have been present) to spread, greatly tarnishing their reputation. You have to think, hey, if this is what they're SHOWING me, then what happens when
                no one is looking?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Miss my rtb family!

                  I'm glad to see you back. I noticed that you hadn't been as active lately, but we all experience times where we are simply unable to access the forum as much as we have previously or would like to.

                  I'm all too familiar with going through those periods as I, like you, previously worked a standard 96-hour work week and did so for several years. Now that I'm down to basically a 40-hour work week for the first time in my adult life, I'm able to rededicate to the forum the way I have wanted to for so long.

                  Stay vigilant in your efforts to educate this other party and hopefully he will see the light. Stay strong in your endeavors and you will find success in this hobby/industry. People pay much closer attention than folks think they do. Seeing your dedication and mind set through posts like this will help people see that your head and heart are both in the right spot.
                  "An increase in reptile education can lead to a decrease in reptile discrimination." - Bebo

                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Re: Miss my rtb family!

                    I wondered where you have been. It sounds like you have given everything you can to help this guy and he needs to honestly get out of the snake keeping business/hobby. I have a difficult time calling it a hobby if he's afraid of touching the animals though. Hopefully you can help him find homes for/sell the snakes he does have and they will be better off than they are with him. Just tell him it's one less thing he has to think about if they are gone. You know, catching flies with honey and all that.
                    http://berkeleyknebel.wix.com/mississippimorphs

                    Photo credit:Eddie Ard .....Banner Credit:Big PaPa Ernest

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                    • #11
                      Re: Miss my rtb family!

                      Sounds like you have been going through a roller coaster of a ride. When you care too much, it is hard to let go and move away. I hope this guy can change his ways.

                      Star


                      Intelligence is not how much you know, but knowing how to put the knowledge you have to use!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Miss my rtb family!

                        Originally posted by weird_science04 View Post
                        Sounds like you have been going through a roller coaster of a ride. When you care too much, it is hard to let go and move away. I hope this guy can change his ways.
                        I am afraid he probably cannot as I see how he is motivated in other aspects of his life. I KNOW there is no talking him out of this breed season as he has already begun, so I will stick around for the babies and then let him know I am done. Hopefully that will detur him from next season.

                        Originally posted by zamora View Post
                        It sounds like you have given everything you can to help this guy
                        Everything is an under statement. It has put more of a strain on my relationship with me future fiance than anything ever has. If it wasnt for my love of these dang beautiful animals I would of handed him all the babies and walked away months ago before I had my little talk with him.

                        Originally posted by bebowebb View Post
                        I'm glad to see you back. I noticed that you hadn't been as active lately
                        Makes me feel a little loved to know someone noticed

                        Originally posted by bebowebb View Post
                        Stay vigilant in your efforts to educate this other party and hopefully he will see the light. Stay strong in your endeavors and you will find success in this hobby/industry. People pay much closer attention than folks think they do. Seeing your dedication and mind set through posts like this will help people see that your head and heart are both in the right spot.
                        I had to laugh, we went to a local show last weekend and we actually sold quite a few animals. It isn't my first show vending with him now and needless to say we were not selling all the higher priced animals so he went and took a nap, if that tells you anything about him. What made me laugh was after the show I told my girlfriend how much fun I had and I could burn all the money I made, because for me It was all about the educating. A moment I will never forget, this older lady came up to my table and stated she was 65 years old, she had feared snakes her whole life and her family brought her to the show. She saw some little kids holding some of my baby boas and she asked if they wouldnt bite her, could she hold one and by god she did! I have never in my 23 years of life had a moment like what happened. There is no way I can express how happy I was the moment I laid that snake into her hands and the biggest smile and laughter came across her face. I wont even try to describe it. I would give everything I own to feel that moment again. She laughed and said " oh my, they are so cute " what have I been afraid of? Ive been missing out this whole time" She played with that boa for 20 minutes and now is going to buy one. THAT IS WHAT ITS ABOUT! im actually going to give her one for free because the money can burn. To see someone love these animals as I do who for 65 years has hated them is priceless. I will never forget that experience.

                        Originally posted by jOHNNY t View Post
                        As consumer we need to be aware of these tipes and make our purchases from (reptile breeders and hobbyists) as you will read in many of the books out there. Thanks
                        Which is why I am going to step away and do things on my own.

                        Originally posted by Reinz15 View Post
                        TC, good for you for making the decision to break away from this guy. This partnership is like oil and water. He is in it for the money and you for the animals.
                        Could not say it better myself!

                        Originally posted by bcr_229 View Post
                        I remember some past posts you'd made about this guy and thought at the time he was a trainwreck.
                        He has gotten only slightly better.

                        Originally posted by Noelle7206 View Post
                        If you can't decide whether it's right or wrong, just imagine yourself as one of his snakes...maybe then you'll know what
                        to do.
                        I already know what and have decided what to do.

                        Originally posted by Joba1972 View Post
                        It's good to see you back! You are clearly acting out of concern for the condition of the larger animals of this guy, but have qualms about the future of the babies you are producing.

                        You obviously care about the welfare of animals, so while I or anyone else may have an opinion about this situation or what you should do going forward, you are person of free will and are going to have to decide if going through with another breeding season with this guy, and the results and implications of it going forward, is something that meshes with your ideals and beliefs about how animals should be treated and/or cared for.
                        Thankyou for not bashing and welcoming me back. I was not sure what to expect in response to this. Thanks so much!

                        Originally posted by acephantom903 View Post
                        It is sad thinking they were living in such bad living conditions.
                        If only you knew the conditions they where in sometimes. not all the time, but sometimes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Miss my rtb family!

                          Originally posted by taxcollector View Post
                          ...
                          I had to laugh, we went to a local show last weekend and we actually sold quite a few animals. It isn't my first show vending with him now and needless to say we were not selling all the higher priced animals so he went and took a nap, if that tells you anything about him. What made me laugh was after the show I told my girlfriend how much fun I had and I could burn all the money I made, because for me It was all about the educating. A moment I will never forget, this older lady came up to my table and stated she was 65 years old, she had feared snakes her whole life and her family brought her to the show. She saw some little kids holding some of my baby boas and she asked if they wouldnt bite her, could she hold one and by god she did! I have never in my 23 years of life had a moment like what happened. There is no way I can express how happy I was the moment I laid that snake into her hands and the biggest smile and laughter came across her face. I wont even try to describe it. I would give everything I own to feel that moment again. She laughed and said " oh my, they are so cute " what have I been afraid of? Ive been missing out this whole time" She played with that boa for 20 minutes and now is going to buy one. THAT IS WHAT ITS ABOUT! im actually going to give her one for free because the money can burn. To see someone love these animals as I do who for 65 years has hated them is priceless. I will never forget that experience.....
                          That's what it's all about, man... I spent 4.5 hours doing a snake 'meet & greet' with a friend of mine recently, between us we had 5 snakes and we were swamped the whole time, putting many smiles on faces that met
                          snakes for the first time. We weren't selling a thing...just educating. We can each make a difference with just a little effort. Keep up the good work.

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