South Brazilian - Get Some!

[thesignguy21]

Middle of the night boredem at the office...LOL. Enjoy.

@mcarthyboas - Here you goTom. This was the day of the Shed! He is Beautiful!

[Pandorasdad]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Great vid! I love the natural caging! A perfect example of how comfortable boas really are when climbing!

[McCarthyBoas]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Thanks Jason for posting the video and I got your picture you e mailed me. Flare is looking vey nice and I am so glad he went to a good home. Still think you need a female to go with him LOL.

Take care
Tom

[taxcollector]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Still think you need a female to go with him LOL.

sales pitch? haha really does show are arboreal boas can be given the chance.

[thesignguy21]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Thanks Jason for posting the video and I got your picture you e mailed me. Flare is looking vey nice and I am so glad he went to a good home. Still think you need a female to go with him LOL.Take care
Tom

You know...funny enough, I had a buddy in my office checking him out today and he asked me if I am going to breed him. My response was shaking my head left to right but the noise that came out was like "uuuhhhh i dunno". He told me that meant yes and asked me when i was going to try it...LOL.

In all honesty, I am really thinking about it. NOT for right now, but I am seriously considering. I have no desire to become a breeder, but I would love the experience of bringing some beautiful boas into the world. At least once. The thought I have, is to do it once and once only, so i can hand pick the offspring I want and sell the rest. If I do, I have a feeling i might upset a few "true locale" guys though. (shocker) :/ I want to cross the SB with a Bolivian.....

What is keeping me from moving forward is the fact that there is so much controversy on these SB's though, and quite frankly it pisses me off.

After having Flare for the past year, I have been extremely glued to his physical characteristics vs Granite's. Scale counts and all the physical features, from head shape to saddle counts, shapes and sizes and all staying consistent between the two Locality's. Researched a MILLION things and ALL the facts state BCA. Ive had conversations with breeders all across the USA because I am so adamant about the truth.

What we have are the guys who have been in the industry so long, and they cry BS, it was crossed. All we hear is, the tails are too long, no such thing as an SB BCA, its really a BCC. Unfortunately for them, or unknowingly to me, they have no proof. At least none that I have seen, nor can I find anywhere that would say something different. Its just, "I've been doing this for 50 years, trust me";yet there is nothing legitimate to create a real scientific argument that the SB is not truly a BCA. Except personal experience and hearsay.

So, if i piss anyone off, so be it....and Im sorry but I believe evidence is necessary. I'm just basing my entire thesis on the Scientist who made the scientific classification. So if they have a problem with that, they can take it up with him and the encyclopedias.

Flare has some amazing characteristics to him. Whats even cooler, is they are all signs of BCA, again...(shocker) He has such skinny High peak saddles. The top of his head is purple and with a green Peak for crying out loud. Its AMAZING in person. Other than the pepper, he only has the black outline on the lower 6 saddles. His side medallions are a rich red glow and he has that rich gold cream color all through out the tail which really makes the red pop out. Pictures, just really dont do this guy justice at all.

What would be my pair you might ask? I have been browsing some Red Eye Blond Bolivians.....I cant think of a better animal to put flare with. If i select the right female with good color like he has...Im going to have a Fireball of a BCA on my hands. Mixed Locale obviously...but hey....no one else is doing it and for what its worth, it would be a beautiful boa morph especially if i can find one thats reduced pattern. Oh my.....i just get butterflies thinking about what I could create through selective breeding.

I have Flares lineage and bloodline info, so as long as I have the same for the Bolivian, Everyone will know its a cross morph and the parents lineage will also be known and legit.

This boy has a lot of potential. I will be posting those pics i sent to you when ever they get a chance to update my membership status!

[artgecko]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Wonderful video! I'm especially interested as I'm considering one of Tom's BCA babies as well. I was unaware there was controversy about them. If they were mixed with BCCs, wouldn't the adults be large like a BCC? i.e. the adults shown as the parents of Tom's litter... They didn't look as big as adult BCCs to me.

Gorgeous live viv setup as well. Is that living moss? This is the second live setup I've seen on the forums here and I must say I'm surprised as I thought most snake keepers wouldn't do live due to risk of infection, difficulty of cleaning, etc. At least that's all I've read. I keep geckos and everyone's pro live viv on that side of the hobby.

[thesignguy21]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Wonderful video! I'm especially interested as I'm considering one of Tom's BCA babies as well. I was unaware there was controversy about them. If they were mixed with BCCs, wouldn't the adults be large like a BCC? i.e. the adults shown as the parents of Tom's litter... They didn't look as big as adult BCCs to me.

Gorgeous live viv setup as well. Is that living moss? This is the second live setup I've seen on the forums here and I must say I'm surprised as I thought most snake keepers wouldn't do live due to risk of infection, difficulty of cleaning, etc. At least that's all I've read. I keep geckos and everyone's pro live viv on that side of the hobby.

Well, as far as Size is concerned, you would most likely have a mixed litter if a bcc was crossed with a bca. One of the only real way(s) to identify the sub-breed of boa is by the scale count. And its not just one scale count....its several types (lateral, dorsal, sub-cautul etc etc). For each of the sub-breeds, there is a specific (range of scale counts) for each type.

Overall size can be considered as well as visual appearance, but you cant just judge the species by the looks and size alone. Though i say that, there are several folks on here that have been around boas so long, that its very easy for them to place a very educated guess on the species and be correct! Most of those veteranas will also give the opinion, but also leave a comment such as "count the scales", "no way to be 100% by just a photo, JMO".

There is "talk", that breeders here in the US have purposefully crossed the Bolivian BCA w/a Common South Brazilian BCC Boa and the result are the South Brazilians on the market now in the US. The critics cry "no bca.....just South Brazillian"....These people wont even recognize these SB as a "true sub breed" because it was SUPPOSEDLY CROSSED.

HHHHHMMMMM....TIME FOR A FUN FACT!

• The BCA, or short-tailed boas have been observed to have crossed with BCC in the wild and most boa guys (and real scientist who dont care either way) agree this happens and does currently happen.

However, whats "fuzzy" as far as all the research i have pointed out, is the originality of the SB's in the US Market and whether or not the SB's that were brought into this country were really BCC and not BCA.

SIDE A
That the SB BCA (in question) was actually a BCC when it was introduced to the USA (in a galaxy far far away).....THEN, "a breeder".......(no one will ever disclose real names because they really dont know the truth, they are just guessing) took a bolivian and forced it to have sex with the Brazilian and VOILA!!! WE NOW HAVE SOUTH BRAZILIAN BCA BOAS.........BUT WAIT!!!! ITS NOT BCA... ITS BCC THAT WAS CROSSED WHICH MEANS NO MATTER WHAT THE HELL SCALE COUNTS YOU COME UP WITH, WHAT EVIDENCE YOU PRESENT.....ITS NOT REALLY A BCA. BECAUSE A MAN CROSSED THE SPECIES purposefully...............

SIDE A CONCLUSION - Its a rubber snake, not real...Its fake....It may have come from South Brazil, but it will always be a BCC because I have my opinions and i dont believe in science...thats fake too! SO...... that doesnt make it a real.......its rubber.



We now pause for a quick fun fact.....

The BCA, or short-tailed boas have been observed to have crossed with BCC in the wild and most boa guys and scientists who dont care either way, agree this happens and does currently happen because they have real proof! Like photos and babies and parents, and documentation that they actually pulled from the wild.......... For real!

SIDE B - THEY ARE TOO BCA!....I dont care what SIDE A has to say"

SIDE B CONCLUSION - "They are not rubber snakes!!!!, they are not, they are not!"



We now pause now for a quick fun fact.....

The BCA, or short-tailed boas have been observed to have crossed with BCC in the wild and most boa guys and scientists who dont care either way, agree this happens and does currently happen because they have real proof! Like photos and babies and parents, and documentation that they actually pulled from the wild.......... For real!


Having said ALL that....You should be able to tell that I am probably a tid bit obsessed with this issue, because i know that SB BCA exist in the wild and after I adopted my Bolivian Queen - I went on a search for the SB's and met Tom. You could ask Tom and most likely anyone else on here, I am not afraid to state opinions in search of "truth" and I did not purchase Flare lightly knowing the controversy.

I went days with no sleep after I ordered him and the first thing I did when I got him was scale counts. I pinned him down to my bed and my wife tallied as i counted way too many small scales all across his body with a pair of bifocals and a sharpie. Every count and all of his visual characteristics equaled BCA. I have posted some of my research somewhere on here about the BCA Scientific classification as defined by Stull in (1932).

The controversy is nothing more than political BS IMO. The ONLY REASON, a controversy exists is because "True Locality Boas" are a Prize because they are the "original" and crossing localities is not always "smiled" upon around here and for very good reason..... "BECAUSE I SAID SO"....and there is NOTHING wrong with having this opinion!

HOWEVER, if the crossing of the Localities happen naturally in the Wild and have been observed, than who the hell are we to say that its wrong and it shouldn't be done. Secondly, on that note, Who the hell is anyone to argue with a legitimate scientific scale count and classification that was given and accepted GLOBALLY by someone who spent his life in a tree kissing every boa he could get his hands on....REALLY??? GET OVER IT! The SB BCA (aka - Flare) that I have (which came from Tom), is legitimate BCA....and thats a fact jack!

[McCarthyBoas]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Well, as far as Size is concerned, you would most likely have a mixed litter if a bcc was crossed with a bca. One of the only real way(s) to identify the sub-breed of boa is by the scale count. And its not just one scale count....its several types (lateral, dorsal, sub-cautul etc etc). For each of the sub-breeds, there is a specific (range of scale counts) for each type.

Overall size can be considered as well as visual appearance, but you cant just judge the species by the looks and size alone. Though i say that, there are several folks on here that have been around boas so long, that its very easy for them to place a very educated guess on the species and be correct! Most of those veteranas will also give the opinion, but also leave a comment such as "count the scales", "no way to be 100% by just a photo, JMO".

There is "talk", that breeders here in the US have purposefully crossed the Bolivian BCA w/a Common South Brazilian BCC Boa and the result are the South Brazilians on the market now in the US. The critics cry "no bca.....just South Brazillian"....These people wont even recognize these SB as a "true sub breed" because it was SUPPOSEDLY CROSSED.

HHHHHMMMMM....TIME FOR A FUN FACT!

• The BCA, or short-tailed boas have been observed to have crossed with BCC in the wild and most boa guys (and real scientist who dont care either way) agree this happens and does currently happen.

However, whats "fuzzy" as far as all the research i have pointed out, is the originality of the SB's in the US Market and whether or not the SB's that were brought into this country were really BCC and not BCA.

SIDE A
That the SB BCA (in question) was actually a BCC when it was introduced to the USA (in a galaxy far far away).....THEN, "a breeder".......(no one will ever disclose real names because they really dont know the truth, they are just guessing) took a bolivian and forced it to have sex with the Brazilian and VOILA!!! WE NOW HAVE SOUTH BRAZILIAN BCA BOAS.........BUT WAIT!!!! ITS NOT BCA... ITS BCC THAT WAS CROSSED WHICH MEANS NO MATTER WHAT THE HELL SCALE COUNTS YOU COME UP WITH, WHAT EVIDENCE YOU PRESENT.....ITS NOT REALLY A BCA. BECAUSE A MAN CROSSED THE SPECIES purposefully...............

SIDE A CONCLUSION - Its a rubber snake, not real...Its fake....It may have come from South Brazil, but it will always be a BCC because I have my opinions and i dont believe in science...thats fake too! SO...... that doesnt make it a real.......its rubber.



We now pause for a quick fun fact.....

The BCA, or short-tailed boas have been observed to have crossed with BCC in the wild and most boa guys and scientists who dont care either way, agree this happens and does currently happen because they have real proof! Like photos and babies and parents, and documentation that they actually pulled from the wild.......... For real!

SIDE B - THEY ARE TOO BCA!....I dont care what SIDE A has to say"

SIDE B CONCLUSION - "They are not rubber snakes!!!!, they are not, they are not!"



We now pause now for a quick fun fact.....

The BCA, or short-tailed boas have been observed to have crossed with BCC in the wild and most boa guys and scientists who dont care either way, agree this happens and does currently happen because they have real proof! Like photos and babies and parents, and documentation that they actually pulled from the wild.......... For real!


Having said ALL that....You should be able to tell that I am probably a tid bit obsessed with this issue, because i know that SB BCA exist in the wild and after I adopted my Bolivian Queen - I went on a search for the SB's and met Tom. You could ask Tom and most likely anyone else on here, I am not afraid to state opinions in search of "truth" and I did not purchase Flare lightly knowing the controversy.

I went days with no sleep after I ordered him and the first thing I did when I got him was scale counts. I pinned him down to my bed and my wife tallied as i counted way too many small scales all across his body with a pair of bifocals and a sharpie. Every count and all of his visual characteristics equaled BCA. I have posted some of my research somewhere on here about the BCA Scientific classification as defined by Stull in (1932).

The controversy is nothing more than political BS IMO. The ONLY REASON, a controversy exists is because "True Locality Boas" are a Prize because they are the "original" and crossing localities is not always "smiled" upon around here and for very good reason..... "BECAUSE I SAID SO"....and there is NOTHING wrong with having this opinion!

HOWEVER, if the crossing of the Localities happen naturally in the Wild and have been observed, than who the hell are we to say that its wrong and it shouldn't be done. Secondly, on that note, Who the hell is anyone to argue with a legitimate scientific scale count and classification that was given and accepted GLOBALLY by someone who spent his life in a tree kissing every boa he could get his hands on....REALLY??? GET OVER IT! The SB BCA (aka - Flare) that I have (which came from Tom), is legitimate BCA....and thats a fact jack!

Jason I love all your post about the true locality of the SB BCA.

Take care
Tom

[weird_science04]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Awesome video and beautiful snake. Looks like a great eater!

Star

[David VB]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Nice vid and great looking snake. But the best part in that vid is the setup of that enclosure. Would love to see more pics of it and some info on the plants part. Are they all real and what kinds are in there? I'm so glad to see there are still people with passion for the hobby of keeping snakes and not just having as much as possible in as less space available

[Tyghenhollan]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

Middle of the night boredem at the office...LOL. Enjoy.

@mcarthyboas - Here you goTom. This was the day of the Shed! He is Beautiful!

How big can South Brazilian Amarali get? My 5 year old was 7'-8" last time I checked. This is larger than most references.

[McCarthyBoas]

Re: South Brazilian - Get Some!

How big can South Brazilian Amarali get? My 5 year old was 7'-8" last time I checked. This is larger than most references.

Are you sure yours is a Southern Brazilian BCA or is it a Northern Brazilian BCC. If you can post a picture of you’re here in this post. Normally pure adult SB BCA’s are under 7’ in length but will be heaver bodied than a BCI boa.

take care
Tom

[thesignguy21]

South Brazilian - Get Some!

Nice vid and great looking snake. But the best part in that vid is the setup of that enclosure. Would love to see more pics of it and some info on the plants part. Are they all real and what kinds are in there? I'm so glad to see there are still people with passion for the hobby of keeping snakes and not just having as much as possible in as less space available

Yes I will share some more pics of his enclosure in about a week or so. I am in the process of yet again modifying it. A lot of what you see is nothing more than a printed background we made at the shop. (I own a sign shop if your wondering).

Thanks for the comments, I am definitely in it for the love. Though I will admit, it's quite the addiction!


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[thesignguy21]

South Brazilian - Get Some!

Are you sure yours is a Southern Brazilian BCA or is it a Northern Brazilian BCC. If you can post a picture of you’re here in this post. Normally pure adult SB BCA’s are under 7’ in length but will be heaver bodied than a BCI boa.

take care
Tom

There is one report that I know of...I would have to go back and check my resources, but I believe their is a record of BCA reaching 7'. But average is 5-6 as adults. I would definitely welcome the pics of that boa though.


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