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  • Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

    Ok, after some researching I figured for my 1st time Breeding Boas I wanted some opinions on a few pairs....Im going with a pair 2 of these 3 options...I kinda want to go for a more "Wanted/Popular" Morph. I'm planning on keeping a few of the babys for my self. As long as the Wifey is unwillingly willing to let me..lol.

    One other thing, a Salmon Boa is also know as a Hypo to right?


    1.) Albino(het Anery) x Salmon = ?

    2.) Anery(het Albino) x Salmon = ?

    3.) Albino x Anery(het albino) = ?


    What can I expect from each pairing?....From what I understand:

    1 can produce sunglows, het for sunglows, and ????

    2 can produce Ghosts, "normals" het ghosts, and ????

    3 can produce ????...I cant seem to find the info I had....

    Thanks for the Help, I'm still researching right now so I might answer my own questions, but feel free to chime in if you know what it is.

    Thanks everyone.
    -Wildman-

  • #2
    Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

    salmon + anery = ghost...salmon + albino = sunglow, salmon + salmon = super salmon

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

      Originally posted by Wildman09 View Post
      Ok, after some researching I figured for my 1st time Breeding Boas I wanted some opinions on a few pairs....Im going with a pair 2 of these 3 options...I kinda want to go for a more "Wanted/Popular" Morph. I'm planning on keeping a few of the babys for my self. As long as the Wifey is unwillingly willing to let me..lol.

      One other thing, a Salmon Boa is also know as a Hypo to right?


      1.) Albino(het Anery) x Salmon = ?

      2.) Anery(het Albino) x Salmon = ?

      3.) Albino x Anery(het albino) = ?


      What can I expect from each pairing?....From what I understand:

      1 can produce sunglows, het for sunglows, and ????

      2 can produce Ghosts, "normals" het ghosts, and ????

      3 can produce ????...I cant seem to find the info I had....

      Thanks for the Help, I'm still researching right now so I might answer my own questions, but feel free to chime in if you know what it is.

      Thanks everyone.
      -Wildman-
      Originally posted by MX121 View Post
      salmon + anery = ghost...salmon + albino = sunglow, salmon + salmon = super salmon

      dont forget, the hypo's must be hets.

      3) = Albinos,& normals, het anery

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

        Originally posted by Scott Ross View Post
        dont forget, the hypo's must be hets.

        3) = Albinos,& normals, het anery

        Yeah, het for Albino right?.and by ''Hypos" your referring to the Salmons I assume. Aren't they are the same thing?

        One more thing, would it be a possibility to produce a Sharp Sunglow from either of those pairings?...from what I understand, a "sharp" sunglow is just het for Anery....I might be wrong, I Love this genetics stuff, keeps me occupied for Hours. Litteraly.

        Thanks man.Rep coming your way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

          No, Sharps are a specific type of albino that is not compatible with the original or Kahl strain you commonly see. You would have to have at least two het for Sharp albinos to get a Sharp albino; they won't just "pop up."

          In order to make a Sunglow you have to have the albino gene in BOTH parents. Same thing to make a ghost. Because anerythrism is recessive the gene has to be in both in order to get offspring that is homozygous.

          Salmons are hypomelanistic boas, but not all hypomelanistic boas are salmons. Salmons are a line of higher pink hypos started by the Ihles at salmonboa.com. Many hypos you see now are mixed, but we try to keep things as specific as possible.

          So for your answers to the scenarios see below. I put the more common name in parenthesis so you can see what certain things are genetically:

          1.) Albino(het Anery) x Salmon = ?
          Het. Anery, Homozygous Albino,
          x
          Het. Hypo,

          25% Het. Albino,
          25% Het. Anery, Het. Albino, (DH snow)
          25% Het. Hypo, Het. Albino, (DH sunglow)
          25% Het. Hypo, Het. Anery, Het. Albino, (TH moonglow)

          **Keep in mind here that visually you will have normals and hypos. You can't tell which ones are het for anery or not so they are all labeled het albino 50% het anery because that is the probability that they carry the anery gene.**

          2.) Anery(het Albino) x Salmon = ?

          Homozygous Anery, Het. Albino,
          x
          Het. Hypo,

          25% Het. Anery,
          25% Het. Anery, Het. Albino, (DH Snow)
          25% Het. Hypo, Het. Anery, (DH ghost)
          25% Het. Hypo, Het. Anery, Het. Albino, (TH moonglow)

          **Again, keep in mind what you'll have visually because the 50% thing applies here too.**

          3.) Albino x Anery(het albino) = ?
          Het. Albino, Homozygous Anery,
          x
          Homozygous Albino,

          50% Het. Albino, Het. Anery, (DH snows)
          50% Homozygous Albino, Het. Anery, (albinos het anery)
          Last edited by jhsulliv; 01-20-2010, 05:56 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

            yep so of the pairings you mentioned all will come out with hets. you would have no
            visual morph other then hypo and albino there. Now once the hets are ready to breed you can
            then produce some morph sunglow, ghost.
            Joley is right on the money on what you would get with these pairings.
            So if you are looking to start small and work your way up you are on the right path.
            with just the anery, hypo, and albino you can get quite a mixture in the future.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

              Originally posted by jhsulliv View Post
              No, Sharps are a specific type of albino that is not compatible with the original or Kahl strain you commonly see. You would have to have at least two het for Sharp albinos to get a Sharp albino; they won't just "pop up."

              In order to make a Sunglow you have to have the albino gene in BOTH parents. Same thing to make a ghost. Because anerythrism is recessive the gene has to be in both in order to get offspring that is homozygous.

              Salmons are hypomelanistic boas, but not all hypomelanistic boas are salmons. Salmons are a line of higher pink hypos started by the Ihles at salmonboa.com. Many hypos you see now are mixed, but we try to keep things as specific as possible.

              So for your answers to the scenarios see below. I put the more common name in parenthesis so you can see what certain things are genetically:

              1.) Albino(het Anery) x Salmon = ?
              Het. Anery, Homozygous Albino,
              x
              Het. Hypo,

              25% Het. Albino,
              25% Het. Anery, Het. Albino, (DH snow)
              25% Het. Hypo, Het. Albino, (DH sunglow)
              25% Het. Hypo, Het. Anery, Het. Albino, (TH moonglow)

              **Keep in mind here that visually you will have normals and hypos. You can't tell which ones are het for anery or not so they are all labeled het albino 50% het anery because that is the probability that they carry the anery gene.**

              2.) Anery(het Albino) x Salmon = ?

              Homozygous Anery, Het. Albino,
              x
              Het. Hypo,

              25% Het. Anery,
              25% Het. Anery, Het. Albino, (DH Snow)
              25% Het. Hypo, Het. Anery, (DH ghost)
              25% Het. Hypo, Het. Anery, Het. Albino, (TH moonglow)

              **Again, keep in mind what you'll have visually because the 50% thing applies here too.**

              3.) Albino x Anery(het albino) = ?
              Het. Albino, Homozygous Anery,
              x
              Homozygous Albino,

              50% Het. Albino, Het. Anery, (DH snows)
              50% Homozygous Albino, Het. Anery, (albinos het anery)


              Wow, thanks ALOT for that. Very helpfull, just a few questions. (Sorry..lol.)..I'm just Very interested in this stuff.


              for the 1st pairing, it'd be better to find a Salmon (het Albino)?..That will produce Sunglows right?...oh, and a Snow maybe?

              and the 2nd, same goes for that one?..het albino?..will that produce any different out comes of the litter?..like Snows and Ghosts?....

              and the 3rd one is pretty self explanatory..

              I really appreciate all the VERY helpfull information, I think it's people like you that keep sites like this busy and Popular.

              Thanks.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

                Originally posted by snake77 View Post
                yep so of the pairings you mentioned all will come out with hets. you would have no
                visual morph other then hypo and albino there. Now once the hets are ready to breed you can
                then produce some morph sunglow, ghost.
                Joley is right on the money on what you would get with these pairings.
                So if you are looking to start small and work your way up you are on the right path.
                with just the anery, hypo, and albino you can get quite a mixture in the future.

                Thanks, yeah I'm gonna go with what jhsulliv and make sure the Salmons/anerys ARE het Albino....I want a cool 1ST time litter...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

                  Yes, exactly right. Recessive traits require the trait in both parents because when they split it's the only way to have any chance at getting an individual with both recessive alleles. Hypomelanism is dominant, so if the individual caries one allele (heterozygous / het) they visually have that trait. Other traits that work like this are the codominant traits jungle, motley, arabesque, and some others that I'm forgetting as I write this. Recessive traits are things like Kahl albino, Sharp albino, T positive albino, anery, blood, etc. Punnett Squares will help you to understand what you're doing, but when you are dealing with 3 "mutant" alleles the squares can get really big and the Advanced Genetics Wizard is your friend.

                  Here is a brief lesson. If you Google "Mendelian genetics" you'll get some more information. Alleles are different forms of genes and for any trait there are two loci (parking spaces) where an allele (car) can "park." If we give albinism the code letter of "a" (lower case because it's recessive), what is the other allele that can fill in at the albino loci? Wild type or normal so since that is dominant when compared to albinism, we give it "A." So an albino's genotype would be "aa" and a completely normal snake would be "AA." A het would be "Aa." After that it's really just math. If we breed a female albino to a male het we'd have:

                  Aa x aa

                  The female can provide what alleles? Only an "a" or an "a," right? So you set up a box like this with these alleles on the mother's side:



                  For the father's side, I bet you can guess it's "A" and "a." Now you fill in the boxes by looking at what allele is above it and what is to the left for the possible offspring. Certainly the percentages you get aren't set in stone, but they do give you the mathematical probability that you would get that particular genotype in the offspring.

                  You can read more at this site: Beginner Guide to Genes, Mutations and Hybrids

                  If you were going to do an albino to a double het sunglow (hypo het albino) the parent's genotypes would look like this:

                  aahh x AaHh

                  This one throws people off because you have to remember that the albino doesn't have any hypo genes, but the loci are still there so SOMETHING must fill them and it is the normal allele, which in this case is recessive because hypomelanism is dominant, remember? If you hear of things called super hypos, they are homozygous hypos and have genotype "HH." You can see that the Punnett square for this is doable, but it starts to get much more tedious. This is where you use the Advanced genetics Wizard. There is an excellent write-up on this as a sticky on the Genetics Forum front page actually. I don't designate Dominant or Codominant because I know what the traits are and I find the little Cs and Ds to be cluttering, but the app provides them for you if you want to use them (so you know that a hypo Hh looks like a hypo and isn't a normal het for hypo, because that can't happen).

                  Start Advanced Genetics Wizard

                  Let us know if you need any more clarification. I know I kind of went through that fast.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

                    Originally posted by Wildman09 View Post
                    Wow, thanks ALOT for that. Very helpfull, just a few questions. (Sorry..lol.)..I'm just Very interested in this stuff.


                    for the 1st pairing, it'd be better to find a Salmon (het Albino)?..That will produce Sunglows right?...oh, and a Snow maybe?
                    You won't get any Snows unless both snakes are het Anery. If you have Salmons that are het for both Anery and Albino they are Triple Het for Moonglow.

                    Mat.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

                      Originally posted by Hunglikeafruitbat View Post
                      You won't get any Snows unless both snakes are het Anery. If you have Salmons that are het for both Anery and Albino they are Triple Het for Moonglow.

                      Mat.

                      Ok, im not to concerned about producing Snows just yet....

                      So if I pair an Albino x Salmon/"Normal"(het Albino) OR Anery(het Albino) x Salmon/"Normal"(het Albino) ...I'd get Sunglows in the 1st paring for sure?..Im doing the Genietics Wizard thing right now...What about the 2nd pairing?..any difference then jhsulliv break down?

                      So, its a good idea to make sure the Non-Albinos ARE het Albino right?..Better outcome...?

                      One more question, I am researching this one to, when the babys come out, which ones be be easily noticed as what they are?..dh sunglow, dh snow?...

                      So I guess what I'm asking is, as long as both parents have the Albino Trait the're IS going to be "Visual" Morphs? (like sunglows, ect.)..

                      I don't want all the babys to have the "normal" hets albino/anerywhatever look. I think YES to the Albino x Salmon(normal) het Albino, will produce some sunglows...

                      Thanks for ALL the info and help. I Really appreciate it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

                        So, it would look like this:

                        1.) Albino(het Anery) x Salmon(het Albino) = ?

                        2.) Anery(het Albino) x Salmon(het Albino) = ?

                        3.) Albino(het ?) x Anery(het albino) = ?

                        Instead of this..(With NO HETS on the Salmons side):


                        1.) Albino(het Anery) x Salmon = ?

                        2.) Anery(het Albino) x Salmon = ?

                        3.) Albino x Anery(het albino) = ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

                          I think you should still do much more research, you are still way to inexperience in genetics to take on such a task as breeding a morph like a snow from such pairings. It will take years to get a snow even with all the right components unless you start with adult dh snows to begin with.

                          I also think you need some experience with actually keeping boas before you jump into a breeding project. You will find that once you acquire a couple boas that it may look easier on paper and in books but you will be faced with many other problems than just what to pair with what. You will also need proper enclosures, heat sources, thermostats, thermometers, etc. and even housing for the babies. A snow breeding project will cost you into the thousands if done properly. You will have to consider all the care and expenses involved here. It is hard to imagine this of course if you aren't keeping boas. Most breeders started out with a passion for boas and pets and it led into them breeding, not the other way around. Please think about this and start out with a pet boa or two and forget about breeding until a few years down the road at least. If you acquire a couple baby boas it will take 3-4 years for them to be optimal breeding size and age anyways.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

                            Originally posted by Wildman09 View Post
                            So, it would look like this:

                            1.) Albino(het Anery) x Salmon(het Albino) = ?
                            Homozygous Albino, Het. Anery,
                            x
                            Het. Salmon, Het. Albino,

                            12.5% Het. Albino,
                            12.5% Het. Albino, Het. Anery,
                            12.5% Homozygous Albino,
                            12.5% Homozygous Albino, Het. Anery,
                            12.5% Het. Salmon, Het. Albino,
                            12.5% Het. Salmon, Het. Albino, Het. Anery,
                            12.5% Het. Salmon, Homozygous Albino,
                            12.5% Het. Salmon, Homozygous Albino, Het. Anery,


                            In this breeding you end up with a 25% chance each of having albinos, Sunglows, Hypos and Normals - all %50 possible het for anery. In my opinion this does not make much sense because no one really wants a possible het anery. If you want to include the anery gene in this type of breeding you should do:

                            1.) Albino(het Anery) x Salmon(het albino and anery)

                            This gives the additional possiblility of making Anerys, Snows, and Moonglows and everything that is not visually Anery will be %66 poss. het Anery.


                            Originally posted by Wildman09 View Post
                            2.) Anery(het Albino) x Salmon(het Albino) = ?
                            This isn't a terrible idea - you have the possibility of making Albinos and Sunglows and everything will be het Anery.

                            Originally posted by Wildman09 View Post

                            3.) Albino(het Anery) x Anery(het albino) = ?
                            This isn't a bad idea either. You get Albinos, Anerys, Snows and everything that isn't visible will be het for the non-visible trait(s).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Alittle "EXPERIENCED in GENETICS" Help...

                              Correct me if im wrong but if you pair albino X anery het albino don't you have a chance at snows?

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