[Feeding Issue] Leopard Boa baby not eating

[Senshii84]

Hey all, so I just got a baby leopard Boa from a breeder at Repticon a few weeks ago, and the seller said that the little guy was only a few weeks old and that he's eaten his first meal and has already shed once. I brought him home and set him up in his new home and left him for a week then tried to feed him with no luck.
I came back from vacation today and tried again, and he still isn't eating and doesn't seem interested at all. does anyone have any advice about feeding a baby Boa their second meal? I don't have access to live feeders, so frozen is all I can offer..
thanks in advance for the help.
Amanda

[zamora]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

First of all, shame on that "breeder" for selling you a baby that young. Most breeders won't sell a baby until they have eaten quite a few times and shed a few as well. This makes sure that they are feeding regularly so the new owners don't have this problem. Did this "breeder" tell you what he/she fed the baby the first time? It will make a huge difference to the snake between live or F/T and mice or rats. If you can contact them, I would recommend it and ask.

If you can't contact them, try your best to find some live pinky mice, most baby boas won't refuse a live pink and you won't have to worry about the prey harming your snake. Once you have this baby feeding on a regular basis (once every 7-10 days) for a while, then you can switch it over to F/T which really, if the "breeder" was reputable, this would have been established before you bought the snake and you wouldn't have to worry about it.

Sorry for the rant, I work VERY hard to make sure my babies are ready for their new homes and sometimes it IS a lot of work but to me, it's worth it.

Please post some pictures of your new baby and your setup, temps and humidity will make a difference in their eating as well. Welcome to RTB, hope you stay a while!

[Senshii84]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

thank you so much for your quick reply
I rly wouldnt have bought the baby if it hadn't been the snake Ive always wanted. Ive had a rly hard time finding one of these and the price was reasonable, otherwise I wouldnt have considered buying a baby this young
anyway, the breeder gave me his card and asked if I would catch up with him to make sure the baby is doing well. he seemed pretty professional and genuinely concerned for the babies he was selling, which was another good point for me. I will try to locate his info and talk to him about it

so here is the basic setup I have for him:


it's basically just a plastic tub with a hide, plants, and a water dish.
I also have a heat mat under the rock hide and it stays about 93-95:

he seems to like it under there, but I sometimes see him on the other side under the plant
the ambient temperature stays about 77-80, which I know is a bit low, but I honestly don't know how to raise this without upsetting my sister by raising the whole house temp:

the humidity fluctuates between 50 and 80, depending on how often I remove the lid

underneath the rock I have a paper towel so he can be on the heat without actually being on the heat lol:


and here's a few pics of the baby:







thank you for helping me out!!
Amanda

[Noelle7206]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

Beautiful little guy...I hope you can get him going ok...I agree with everything zamora posted already. I've bred some snakes in the past & they ALWAYS had feeding records & were never sold before they fed EASILY & a
number of times for me. I'd keep handling to a bare minimum until he's totally on track, btw. Welcome to the forum...

[Morgans Boas]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

I've had a few dozen Leopards -- Including my recent litter . They are typically, very hardy Boas. Your best bet for a 2nd feeding is a live fuzzy mouse, left in overnight. Surely their is either a pet store or Craigslist ad that can get you a live mouse. After about 4 meals, it is easier to switch to f/t.

[Senshii84]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

alright guys, so I finally found a pet store that carries live feeders. it's an hour away from me, so I won't be able to do this forever haha, but I got two fuzzies and I planned on feeding one this week, and keeping the other alive for next week so I don't have to travel out there as often...
well I bought kitten formula to feed them and a little heat source and made them a nest, and I don't think I can do it....
after feeding the little guys and having one fall asleep in my hand, it killed me to think they would just be eaten.
part of me knows that my little Boa needs to eat, but then I look at these guys with their little eyes just opening and I don't think I can do it
how do I remedy/overcome such a thing? I am a HUGE animal lover, and I knew this would be hard, but not this hard
please help

[zamora]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

I look at these guys with their little eyes just opening and I don't think I can do it
how do I remedy/overcome such a thing?

Stop looking at them. Don't play with your snake's food! LOL, fortunately for me, I don't have an affinity for rodents although all but one of my snakes take f/t so it's not as big of a deal. It will be easier though when it's time to feed if you don't stay in the room. It looks like your setup is fine--even though it seems that your ambient temps are a bit low, if the surface under the hide is what you say it is, that explains why he stays in there, the ambient temp in the hide is higher than it is outside the hide. I think you are on the right track, just get him feeding regularly and you will be able to switch him to f/t before you know it. By the way, he is exceptionally gorgeous, I'm jealous!

[bcr_229]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

You might try dropping his UTH back to 89-90 on the hot spot, my boas don't seem to like it much warmer than that.

[Noelle7206]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

I'm a huge animal lover too and honestly, feeding snakes was hard for me at first because I've kept all sorts of rodents as pets long before I ever got into snakes. But that was MANY rodents ago, LOL!

For one thing, keeping fuzzies alive is very difficult & actually not so nice for them; the food you got is not a match for their natural diet so it will probably cause digestive turmoil for them...AND rodent-moms routinely
lick (clean) their babies bottoms too (hopefully you're not willing to do that?) and they also keep them warm & feeling safe by their presence. So I applaud you for trying so hard but this isn't a good solution.

I breed my own rodents and let me tell you about mice so you don't need to feel so bad about these being dinner: while rats are generally very good parents, mice (& we're talking about plenty of space & food etc) will
often get tired of raising babies and just kill them. They don't do it near as nicely as snakes do...(I'm sorry to be graphic here-) they often chew off their faces & leave them to die slowly & painfully. So while I under-
stand that right now these look just like cute little puppies, try to keep the process of snake-feeding in perspective. I've kept rodents as pets...but now I much prefer snakes as pets...and I regard the rodents I raise
just as a farmer does. I am not a vegetarian, though I do support (& buy) humanely-raised meat for my consumption. Similarly, my rodents have a good life...no struggle to survive starvation, dehydration or predators...
they just don't have a good retirement system, LOL!

Anyway, the sooner you switch this snake to pre-killed (frozen-thawed or fresh) the easier this will be.

[Senshii84]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

thanks everyone who replied
I went out and bought a ceramic heater for the Boa and the mice, so it is now suspended above them and the ambient temps are reading about 82-85
I also turned the thermostat for the mat down a few degrees as suggested
the Boa didn't rly spend much time in the hide to begin with tho. I found him on the other side about 7 out of 10 times I checked on him. I think he is comfortable now
anyway, I had one last frozen fuzzie left so I decided to try for round three before I break down and feed the babies...I warmed it in a baggie in hot water then scented it with the live ones, and warmed the nose up under the heater before trying...he didn't take it so I left it for a few hours...no luck...
I am sad to say that I will be feeding one of the babies to him when I get home from work...it has to be done...

[Noelle7206]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

...I am sad to say that I will be feeding one of the babies to him when I get home from work...it has to be done...

Night-time is a more natural time for most snakes to hunt & eat. Try to minimize your presence when you offer him dinner, as we are big scary distractions, especially to new or young snakes.

And no need to feel sad: it's the natural order of things. Whether we're feeding our pets or ourselves, we are 'taking sides' but everything has to eat...and when your snake finally thrives you'll feel better.

[Senshii84]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

I agree...I know he has to eat, and I love him as much as any other animal...he deserves better
so I spose I need to ask, where should I feed him? should I take him out if his enclosure and feed him in a dark container? or leave him in his home? I usually feed my other snakes outside the enclosure and I cover the feeding tank with a blanket, but with this being a live mouse, I'm worried it will injure him if I'm not watching
the mice have their eyes open and are running around now, so I'm afraid baby Boa will get bit and be scared to eat again...

[Noelle7206]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

I agree...I know he has to eat, and I love him as much as any other animal...he deserves better
so I spose I need to ask, where should I feed him? should I take him out if his enclosure and feed him in a dark container? or leave him in his home? I usually feed my other snakes outside the enclosure and I cover the feeding tank with a blanket, but with this being a live mouse, I'm worried it will injure him if I'm not watching
the mice have their eyes open and are running around now, so I'm afraid baby Boa will get bit and be scared to eat again...

I'm SO glad you asked! It's important to feed him IN his normal cage. A bolder snake, one that's already feeding, may not be disturbed by being handled & moved to another cage, but a shy snake will likely refuse food.
And in the future, it's dangerous for you to be handling a large snake either before it's been fed (it's hungry!) or after it has fed, as many stay in "feed mode" (ready to bite anything) for even a day after they've eaten.

Optimally, the eyes would be closed on this live feeder...you are right to worry, as once they open their eyes, they may bite back. Far less risk since it's a young mouse, not an adult, but still a concern. You should
have offered him right away, when their eyes were closed. What works very well is to put a large steep-sided heavy* bowl (*so it won't tip when the snake leans on it) in the cage & leave the fuzzy in it; in that
scenario, the snake can pounce from above like in the wild, after observing the prey for however long it takes (overnight, in the dark) to get up their nerve. The bowl needs to be deep enough so the mouse can't escape.

Did you ASK the person you got this snake from exactly what the snake took for his first feeding??? It's often helpful to offer the exact same thing, for feeding success. You want to know if it's a rat or a mouse, what size
and whether it was live or dead? (eyes open or closed, if live? and if freshly killed or frozen-thawed, if dead?) This is why the better breeders don't sell snakes this way, without a strong feeding record. It's harder for any
inexperienced person to get good results; often snakes learn to generalize after the first few meals, & the details aren't so important, but the first meals can be tricky.

I'd hesitate to feed those live 'hoppers' to your snake (they aren't 'fuzzies' any more), since it may scare him out of eating with all their activity. And yes, they could chew on him. I'm doubting whether you are
up to the task of killing them to offer to him...but that's what I'd do. I suspect you now have 2 pet mice, LOL! But if you can keep them alive -& now they need solid mouse chow- you might be able to trade them
back to the pet store you got them from for "fuzzies with eyes closed"...that would be the best thing for your snake, & waiting a week won't hurt anything...it might even help, as he'll be hungrier and more "settled
in"...ie. relaxed & unafraid, provided you don't handle him in the meantime. That's what I'd recommend you do at this point.

Do you have feeding tongs? Another thing you might try (IF you're not returning the mice to the store?) is to firmly hold onto the mouse's tail with the tongs (in the snakes cage) & see if the snake pounces on him.
Seeing the snake's reaction to live prey may help guide your next move, if you cannot find out what he supposedly ate for his first meal. Do NOT let the hopper run loose in his cage though...& he's gonna squeak
with you pinching his tail with the tongs.

I hope you're "tough enough" for this...(goes without saying that if the snake grabs the tethered hopper mouse, you let go & let him constrict & eat.)

[Noelle7206]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

One more thing: keep in mind that in nature, mice don't approach snakes asking to be dinner, so when you offer food (using tongs) to a snake, try to make it appear as though the rodent is just passing by.
In other words, try to elicit a "chase" instinct in your snake by dragging dead prey past & slightly away from the snake, close enough for the snake to notice & catch the scent & motion. If it seems like the rodent is
approaching the snake's face, it may scare the snake out of eating. (admittedly, not ALL snakes will care...) It may be that when you offered dead prey before that you got this part wrong & maybe he WILL
already take dead prey? It also helps if it's got some lifelike warmth.

[Senshii84]

Re: Leopard Boa baby not eating

alright guys so guess what??? we have a successful second feed!!!!
so I did a bunch of calling around to find a place closer to me that sold live mice and finally found a place about half an hour from me (instead of the hour I would have driven to the other place) so I took your advice and went and bought a smaller one that wouldnt hurt Skittles and placed it in his home. I covered it with a towel and left him for a buti and came back to no mouse!!! weeee!!
and it was so much easier to do since I came straight home with only one mouse and put it in his home right away
I now have a happy baby Boa and two happy, thankful hopper mice. I think one of my coworkers is willing to take them after I get them established on solid food, as I cannot keep them for very long
I just want to thank everyone who helped me and encouraged me to do what needed to be done. it is a relief to see my baby eating
I will keep updated here on his next few feedings