--POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

[MrSparkle]

:-[ Here is the new pet I have adopted, there are more pics of my new snake in the PIC section,...unfortunatly I'm concerned about this snakes mouth. It always seems to be slightly open, flexing her mouth open when active and moving about ... I hear no wheezing though.
I tried to get some good shots to illustrate my concern....you can also not a touch of red scrape to the upper jaw area.
Am I just over reacting ?






I have seen pictures of mouth rot before,.. could these symptoms and visual pics be a foreshadowing of MOUTH ROT ?
Also,... I have picked up a little info here and there about "star gazing" what exactly is this mannerism ? is it truly a symtom of bad things to come ?

.Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

No, you're not over-reacting. This Boa definitely needs to be seen by a good vet.

[Tj]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

You are definately not over-reacting with this. You NEED to bring this snake into a good herp vet as soon as you can. What you said about the dusty hazy eyes, could be a retained eye cap which can cause nasty infections on the snakes eyes. Also the mouth portion does look very messed up also. ALmost as if the snake was constantly rubbing its face on the cage it was in. both can lead to very serious infections and problems, so i would bring the snake in ASAP.

[MrSparkle]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

Thanks TJ and Viper. I just knew somthing was not right with those cracked eye caps or irrated mouth area.
I was looking though this section the other day and saw pics of a more severe and advanced stage of this illnesss and was suspecting my snakes early signs were related.
What type of medications can I be prepared to receive and a round about estimate on $$ price ?

[SLAponte]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

Wow. She looked fine on the other forum, but pic #2 here looks very bad. ALso, I think pic #3 shows a retained eyecap or maybe a humidity or hydration issue...

Definetly vet material.

Good luck! Please let us know what the vet finds/diagnose, etc.

BTW, I for one appreciate the pictures very much. Sometimes a description doesn't help and the more visual samples we can get the better prepared we can be to deal with these things.

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

I have no idea how much.

I am just woundering:

What size was the enclosure that this boa was being kept in?
What are the temps in the enclosure?
What is the humidity?

[MrSparkle]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

--- Allright... setting up Vet appointment now.
After reading up through posts and care sheets on this web site .. it seems a miracle this snake has survived it's many years in the care of his prior owner !
I know the snake had nothing special as far as humidy or temp control. It came to me in it's home of all it's years--- a large 2x2x6 --nylon screen enclosure with pvp bracing to complete it's rectangular shape. No heat source of any type. The only thing that seemed sufficent was it's large water bowl.
I plan on creating a custom set up made from wood, and plexi. Fitted with sufficent heating sources along with gauges to monitor temp on hot and cool sides of the enclosure and humidity. Proper substate and hiding area another consideration never granted this snake will be provided.
~ I'll keep ya'll posted on the improving condition of snake along with it's up and coming habitat !
thanks for the help and advice guys !

~ carlos

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

>yeah, doesn't sound like the previous owner was doing that great of a job.

Luckily for the Boa it is in better hands now. Goodluck MrSparkle, hope the Boa heals up quickly.

[SLAponte]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

Hey Carlos, where are you (city, state)??

[Ryan]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

to be frank I am surprised that the snake got up to that size and lived this long with no heat source, unless the guys house was 82 degrees with a 92 degree hotside. such a shame.

[LORI]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

Ok.. This snake definately looks quite bad off here..UGH.
Great that you have it going to a vet. It's going to need it ! Please make sure that the vet has experience with reptiles, especially snakes/boas also !
Now for my input on what's going on and some suggestions for it also..
First.. The snake def looks to have some MR aka stomatitis going on with it. No doubt about that.. [ BTW.. The vet does NOT need to do a culture on the mouth to see this even. if he does, then find another vet is all ! Cuz all they'd be doing is padding the bill imo.]
A few things need to be done for this for the snake..
1. The mouth area has got to be cleaned out/debrimated on a daily basis. Basically use hydrogen peroxide and cotton tipped applicators for doing this is all. Be really careful in it's mouth as the teeth are very likely to be harmed when doing this due to the infection going on in there atm. What your going to be doing is "swiping out" any/all of the build up that is present in the mouth cavity doing this cleaning. This is for the mouth Rot btw aka Stomatitis that is quite apparent in the pics of the snake.
2. The snake also looks to have some rostril area damage going on with it. There also seems to be necrotic tissue involved in this also. This is a multi-part tx btw in order to deal with this issue.
a. The rostril area needs to have some NOVALSAN applied to it on a daily basis. Just use an applicator to do this. This should be done a couple times per day btw also. The vet should give you a bottle of this stuff. Cost is about $12 for what they give you usually. This is basically an anti-bacterial soap. Apply it liberally to the rostril area. Take note to not get it into the nostrils also.
b. After applying the NOVALSAN to the rostril, you need to apply some anti-bacterial ointment to the area. MAKE sure that there is NO pain reliever in the one that you use also ! This needs to be applied VERY GENEROUSLY ! What you want is for the rostril area to basically be moist at all times with this stuff. You can use bacitracin or neosporin np for this. Cost = ~ $10 or less. What this is going to do is to moisten the necrotic tissue so that it can be taken off later without causing any further damage to the area. If you have a good vet, they will even show you how to ID necrotic tissue and also how to remove it as well. If they don't, then they will have you come back for office visit and do it and charge you for it also. UGH. Applying this also will keep an anti local to the area to help in any infection present and also preventing the build up of any further infection to the rostril.
Prolly running out of space here now..lol>>>

[LORI]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

>>>
c. The snake is prolly on the dehydrated side also. Most of them with MR do not drink enough. So give the snake an electrolyte in it's water bowl also. You can use gatorade for this even. 50/50 with water or 100% even np. Just be aware that if you use the colored ones like red.. this will color the snake reddish also. That will go away with sheds np though. OR you can use the pedialyte one np even. Replace this daily for the snake. If the snake is or gets too dehydrated, the vet will show you how to tube liquids down it's gut also. They usually do not charge for the tube etc for this that they give you btw. The snake can be soaked if it does not have an ri also btw. Just soak for like 20 minutes and put some of the gatorade into the soaking water too.
d. The snake needs to be placed on an antibiotic. There are two that are usually used for this type thing.. Baytril and Amakacin. The best imo is the Baytril.. it has less of a dehydrating affect than the Amakacin does. The admin for this will be sq. Do NOT let a vet try and give you oral suspension for the snake. It's a PITA and does nOT work as well combatively as sq injections do for what's going on at all. The vet will most likely give you pre-dosed syringes and also tell you how often to give them to the snake. Your cost for these can vary. Expect something in the area of $3-5 per syringe..With the snake on prolly every 2-3 days injection for like 3-5 doses of it. If your vet gives you a bottle of Baytril.. I want his name and # to get mine also from him lol.

Now also.. keep the snake on either newspaper or paper towels for a substrate. Do NOT use anything else as a substrate atm until the infection clears up. It will only get into the snake's mouth and further complicate the MR is all. YUCK. Also keep the snake's temps a bit higher than normal too. I go with about 85 low and 89/90 high for snakes/boas with MR here. Also.. Keep the humidity lowered for the snake too. Higher humidity will only accentuate the breeding ground for microbial agents for the snake and he does not need such at this time at all. He already has enough of that crap going on. I would go with humidity at even a low of like 45-50% for the snake for now myself. YUP, this might adversely affect sheds for the time being, but the infection thing is the priority for the snake, not bad shedding.
As for the eye.. can't see it too clearly, but if the eyecap is retained..the vet should know how to remove it is all. Take note, that snakes that are dehydrated may appear to have a retained eyecap when they do not. All that you might be seeing is that the snake looks as such due to the dehydration.
Oh and also.. SNkaes with mr amd/or rostril damage are not willing feeders at all either ! If the snake is a good weight , then there is no concern in this area atm for it. If it is underweight, then some nutrients may be added via tubing is all. the vet should go over that with you np if needed though.
Think that covers what I can see in the pics. GOOD LUCK and keep us posted on what's going on and how the snake is doing

[MrSparkle]

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~WOW ~ you are truly awesome LORI ! Loved all the detail and specific information pertaining to this nasty affliction on my snake. I go to the VET come this tuesday, I feel better with the terminology for the MEDS. Thanks for all the advise ! Gonna help me and others seeking help for sure

[LORI]

Re: --POSSIBLE MOUTH ROT ? NEED ADVISE PLEASE.

NP sparkle..Unfortunately I have seen waaay too much MR in rescues in recent years here and therefore have had waaay tooo much on hands experience with it ..UGH.
Here's a page of mine from one of the rescues we had here this past summer.....
http://www.koalaskritters.net/jake.html

NOTE : By the time that JAKE came to us from his owner. There was not much hope for him to make a full recovery. He had been seen by one of "those" vets that say they are knowledgable with reptiles/snakes...but actually were not..UGH. Should the vet have been honest or actually had the knowledge needed to properly treat Jake and his presenting conditions.. Jake would most likely be alive and well today. Jake passed away in August despite what was done to try and save him once he got here. :'( From ealking with his previous owner it was determined that Jake's original and only condition that started ALL his health issues was MR.

[oOSpOOkYOo]

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I realy hope this snake pulls through carlos. I get so pi$$ed off when I see stuff like this. How cvould anyone treat another lifeform with almost humanlike qualities this way. If I was the mean ^%$&%^#& type i'd say give out the guys phone number  ;D But that may cause problems... or will it... lol.. -sTEVE

p.s. good luck