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  • Questions questions questions

    First of all i would publicly thank clay for getting me back on the forrum after a fowl up. Now to the good stuff. I have recentlly fell into a 7 foot RBC of a "friends" of mine who had the snake for about 3 months and a previus owner before that for 6 years. It was give it to me aor the boot factory for it has mout rot. :-[ I have a strongger back ground on snakes so I kinda know what im doing . Because of price and knowledge i am rebuilatating my new snake. after 2 vet check ups i have been giving 2.5 cc of baytril, swabbing the mouth with prodine scrub and applying silver sulfadize cream. also increased temp. to 92 degrees 24 hrs. a day. What else??? his teath r not falling out but there is puss and bleading i have putvitamin suppliment in his water witch he drinks. will he also asmose it? any comment or suggestions are much apreciated thank you Steve-o

  • #2
    Re: Questions questions questions

    Question for you... *** is
    ??? ???

    Do you mean rehabilitating per chance ?

    Because of price and knowledge i am rebuilatating my new snake.
    HMM.. , Just to let ya know in regards to your commentary here... Personally, I do NOT place a price on a life from at all. I value ALL life froms the same when it comes to their health. I would nOT decide to rehab an animal due to it's potential value on the open market at all. That's me though I just found your comment to be off to the side of anyone who would care about whether or not a reptile were rehabbed is all.

    Moving on though...Puss is normal to have when MR is present. This is what you need to be removing on a DAILY basis from the snake's mouth. Even doing such as often as up to three times per day if it is MAJOR. I'm not familiar with the prodine, I use hydrogen peroxide here for debridamation of the MR here. I also use NOVALSAN and another med that I don't recall the name of atm as well.
    Bleeding is normal, to an extent , from what you are doing, or should be doing, to combat the MR. You are debriding the mouth..right ?? It's not clear from your post if you are or not. Sounds like you are just applying meds is all. That is NOT going to take care of the MR btw in itself.

    When you say you have increased the temps.. Are you saying that you have the temps at 92 degrees F across the board. Ie..No supply of any temp gradient is available to the snake at all ? NOT a good thing if this is the case ! A snake with MR can be given a temp gradient np, long as it is properly being tx'd for the MR simultaneously.

    will he also asmose it
    UMM.. The word your trying to utilize here is actually OSMOSIS NOT asmosis..or form of . FYI.. There is no such word as asmose or form thereof anyways.

    Now with that in mind...Here's your answer...
    YES the snake will do such if he were to soak in the water with the vitas in it. Also, this is NOT a prefered route for the intro of vitas to a snake even. Preferentially, the ingression of vitamins to the snake is via orally. Question for you though, would be ...
    WHY?? Are you attempting the supply of vitas to the snake in the first place anyways? What is the dx that pertains to such being attempted at all ?
    If the snake is also mal-nourished to an extent, which would be the norm for advanced MR due to secondary cx's of food abstention...Then the snake should be tubed nutrients/vitas/electrlyte therapy for such.


    • #3
      Re: Questions questions questions

      OH and


      What is the snake's weight ?
      Moving this thread to the health section also now....


      • #4
        Re: Questions questions questions

        first you move me were no one can see us then you beat me up. (just kidding) I guess I thought with my snake background and and knowledge I was doing a good thing given the fact i had this snaked dumped on my doorstep to take care of. the owner wanted nothing to do with it I am very unhappy at the previous owner for his actions. But with what you have said I thought about it and Maybe your rite I should not try to take care of it and drop it off at the humane society.(were they will probably uthanise it) I have seen the light. thank you steve


        • #5
          Re: Questions questions questions

          first you move me were no one can see us then you beat me up.
          I moved this thread to the health forum. That is where we discuss health issues with the snakes btw. AND others will see it here np also.  
            AS far as beating you up..LOL. Your reading that wrong IMO. What I did was this ...
          1. I related my comment in relation to your comment on "price" of a life form. Your post seemed to denote that rehabbing is a choice which depends on the value of an animal. My comment[s] are my OPINION is all. Which btw I stand by no matter what. Difference pf opinion is what makes the world go round and also leads to uniqueness from others.  
          2. I tried to "lead" you toward seeing what seems to be not correct in the area of the rehabbing of this snake by asking questions and supplying information was all. NONE of us are above obtaining help where needed in the care of our snakes. NOT even those of us who have an abundant amount of years of experience with them.  
          3. You tried to use LARGE TECHNICAL terms of usage in the english language in your posting here. Some of which was NOT actual known wording even. Had you utilized another word that was an actual word in our language instead. It might have had a definatively different meaning that what you were expressing possibly. That in itself could have caused another member to take what you were saying and possibly done something wrong in the care of their snake[s]. Depending on what it would have been, that could have been a MAJOR problem. I even related the actual terming that it seemed you were trying to express in your post. Further I asked relative question[s] for such, which when answered I could have provided you with input in relation to the matter that I have knowledge of. I believe that i also pointed out what the preferable method was in relation to what you are attenpting to do , or from what I get from your post that is actually. I refer to what i did as a form of educating is all. Nothing more, nothing less.  ;D

          I guess I thought with my snake background and and knowledge I was doing a good thing given the fact i had this snaked dumped on my doorstep to take care of.  the owner wanted nothing to do with it I am very unhappy at the previous owner for his actions.
          I have no knowledge of what your background in snakes is I couldn't know what it entails, especially in the area of rehabbing snakes. I NEVER said that you weren't doing a good thing also. I did however , possibly subliminally even, question your ethics in doing such in regards to just "WHY" you are attempting to rehab this snake. That is due to the way that you presented yourself and WHY you are doing such with this snake is all.    ???[

          BTW.. I also would be unhappy in regards to the previous owner's action[inaction[s] in relation to this snake too.  cwm23.gif s5.gif

           But with what you have said I thought about it and Maybe your rite I should not try to take care of it and drop it off at the humane society.(were they will probably uthanise it) I have seen the light.  
          I NEVER said that you shouldn't try to take care of the snake and rehab it at all. Don't know where you got that from at all either. I did however try to give you some information and also retract further information in regards to what your doing in relation to the snake's rehabbing. That is done in trying to help you out in getting the snake rehabbed, in case you missed it possibly. FYI...I NEVER would suggest that a person "drop off a snake" at a humane society in my lifetime ! Especially after what i have seen taking place in regards to reptiles there.   ???cwm23.gif s5.gif Euthanizing it would actually be the HUMANE thing for them to do , in relation to what they..or most of them actually do with snakes that come into them. Here's a clue in relation to what I have seen them do at times in shelter type places such as the humane society...
          Place the snake in a tote with a cover on it.
          No water
          No feeds
          No heating
          No lighting
          No contact
          No medical assistance
          NO substrate....
          Think ya get the clue here in what goes on "behind closed doors" at some of these types of places now ???   I value reptilian life forms , and others, more than the above would relate to , in case ya haven't noticed yet.

          I have seen the light.
          NOPE, You are still in the darkest regions of the closet it seems. BUT again, That is just my opinion is all.  ;D

          Sooo, Now that that is all out of the way. Let's attend to the matter at hand that was the original reason for this post you placed here...
          The snake with MR.
          Please answer the questions I posted in the first reply for you on the snake. Then I , and others can try to help you in rehabbing this snake back to health.  


          • #6
            Re: Questions questions questions

            I brought the snake to the vet. she is a certified reptile vet and she told me to do as follows and ONLY as follows. If you would be so kind as to tell me what else i can do i would be very happy. I am seeking knowledge. apply prodone scrub once or twice a day and then silver sulfadiazine cream. Also administer 2.5 cc of Bayatril every 48 hours. I have took it upon myself to increase cage temp. to over 92 degrees 24 hours a day.(i read that on a care sheat for mouth rot) Removed all old substate i was givin with the cage. ( he had small stone like and wood bark not sure if it was pine ceader or fur bark). I also disinfected the hole cage with water bleach solution.(I believe it was never done as long as the snake has been in there) now i have newspapper as substrate. Now for your questions. The weight is unclear i would guess 20 lbs but i know he is over six foot, not head shy and very lethargic. I don' know what you mean by debriding? The vet said nothing of that.
            Now I have a few questions for you please. I have read that stress is the leading killer of a sick snake. so how can you keep the stress down when handleing her 2 times a day giving her shots and prying her mouth open(with a rubber spatulay) and giving her shots??? Please instruct me. and sorry about my spelling errors and word ussage,I was dropped as a child and now i am dislexic. hookt on fonics werx fer me. Thank you steve


            • #7
              Re: Questions questions questions

              HMM.. I thought i had posted this last night here, guess I just left it in my word doc ..arghh. ANYWAYS.. Here's some info for you...

              OK..First go and read down on this thread here on the site. I placed a ton of information on MR in it. Just ignore all the other that is regarding the necrosis is all...

              Debridimation is basically manually removing the "crap/infection residual" from the snake's mouth in the case of MR aka Stomatitis. This would be the cottage cheesy , mucousy, build up that is going on in the snakes mouth where the infection is. If it is not removed, the snake will not get better is all. The "crap" will just keep building up and the count on the microbial agent involved will keep rising. This will make it harder to combat. Best thing to do is clean the mouth at least twice per day if you can to keep this stuff at a minimum.

              Dehydration is usually present in snakes with MR. I gave the information on what to do for this on that other post that I gave the link for.

              The antibiotics are a needed thing for the infection present aka MR. Baytril does work for this btw. Please make sure that the shots you give the snake are given in the upper third of the snake's body. They should be given on opposite sides also from the last shot given. ie..left side..right side...left side and so on. If you give the shots below the top one third of the body of the snake..You will cause kidney damage most likely..which will reult in renal failure for the snake down the road most likely. For MR, the shots are given sub-cutaneous also btw.. ie sq. Do not give these shots to your snake intr-muscular at all.

              I am not familiar with this prodone scrub you refer to at all. I have asked and the closest I can relate to it is that it is possibly some form of iodine basically. If it is..please make sure that it is diluted, especialy if you are applying it into the snake's mouth. It should be the color of a very weak teat..if it is iodine based that is.

              As for the other med you are using.. I do NOT use that in a snake's mouth here at all myself. The only thing I use that for is in a topical ointment that is applied OUTSIDE on the scales of a reptile for bacterial infections. I couldn't relate whether applying this in a snake's mouth is a good thing or not. I wouldn't do it here though. At least not without further information on it first.

              The vitamins..lose them.. Your wasting your time and money IMO. If the snake is mal-nourished, then it needs to be tubed is all. In rehab there is a mix that we use for this purpose also. Tubing supplies and being shown how to do this can be done by your vet btw np. [ or they should know how to that is].

              Your cage temps... Give the snake a gradient temp. Don't make it sit in a cage that has only high temps in it. A snake with MR can still thermoregulate itself np. We do this type of thing for a snake with an RI, but not one with MR.

              In regards to the stres issue for the snake. Just keep how often you handle her to a minimum is all. The less handling she has, the better , due to the times you have to handle her for the tx's. Also give her back her hide too. She will remain less stressed if she has it.

              she is a certified reptile vet
              I don' know what you mean by debriding?  The vet said nothing of that.  
              Sounds like your vet is one of the MANY that claim to be reptile vets, but have no clue how to actually treat snakes at all for health issues. IF she knew snakes, then she also would know that with MR you need to debride the mouth/infected area too or the snake will not get rid of the infection at all. In fact, she should have debrided the snake's mouth while you were at the visit and shown you just how to do this yourself even.

              Do you have any pics of the snake at all that can show the MR and how advanced it is atm ?


              • #8
                Re: Questions questions questions

                so heres the deal loriand thank you very much for yor advive i should not apply the prodine(it is a iodine knock off i believe and debride the mouth but how with a swab brush rag wct . I will do as u say but my snake does not look neer as bad as the pics on that link i will try to get pics as well. shot day today so im gonna do the ve thing now thank you again Steve


                • #9
                  Re: Questions questions questions

                  The best thing to use IMo is the cotton tipped applicators...BUT...not everyone has these lieing around like we do here hehe. They can be bought at a medical supply store though. Cost about $8 for 1000 of them [ YES, You would go through tons of them doing the debriding of the snake's mouth also ]. If not those, then q-tips are fine to use [ buy store brand as they tend to have less cotton on them.]
                  That snake in the link is one that has an advanced case of MR with secondary problems healthwise also.... in the form of necrosis. That's what can happen if the MR is not taken care of and eradicated.
                  HMm.. Is that the exact spelling of that "iodine" stuff that you posted ? I couldn't find referencing anywhere on it at all ??? Then again, could be a generic with name that's not associative even also.
                  Other thing that could be used when debriding in the snake's mouth is listerine btw. Just dilute it 50/50 with water is all. That stuff can kill anything lol. It won't harm the snake either. I know other reptile rescuer/rehabbers that use the listerine vs the hydrogen peroxide with np.


                  • #10
                    Re: Questions questions questions

                    i just wrote a bunch of stuff but it didn't #@%$& post.
                    well i'll make it short um i said im mad at my vet cuz she saiad on the bottle and in person"apply inside mouth once a day for 3 weeks. (silver sulfadiazine cream) now i here heavy gugaly breathing and im pissed. Did she tell me wrong and now what also she is very slugish very. I believe i als thanked you........yes yes i did thankyou.
                    um thats all later and thanx steve


                    • #11
                      Re: Questions questions questions

                      First.. Get into the snake's mouth ASAP. Check it out and get it cleaned out from the MR crap that is in there. That might be what's causing the snake to breathe like that. Could be going down the trach or into the glotitis possibly.
                      I'll see what I can find out about putting that stuff in the snake's mouth for ya also in the meantime. We just don't do that here is all.


                      • #12
                        Re: Questions questions questions

                        hello heres the deal. I just cleaned the mouth out with q-tips then cleaned with listerene again amn put him in his cage. when i pikced him up he realy gugled like RI, he doesnt do alot of open mouth breathing and gurgling till i muck with him for medical procedures??? I put the white silver **** cream and the iodine based stuff on the shelf (will not use ) the stuff my vet told me to use. It aint even worth bringing him back for a check up if she don't know what she's talkin about huh?? thanx later Steve


                        • #13
                          Re: Questions questions questions

                          Continue using the aytril though ;D

                          Ok.. If he girgles when your micking in his mouth is all. Then make sure that when you do this your not getting any of it down his glotitis at all. That lil hole thingie on the bottom of the inside of his mouth where his tongue comes outta. That could be what's causing it to happen possibly.


                          • #14
                            Re: Questions questions questions

                            yes i am aware of the epaglotis and i tey to avoid it im using 50/50 peroxide now with a very smooth /fine brush i think he might...."might" be doing better. how long does it somtines take for these things?? my only concern is he hasn't bittin any body for 6 years but i think he's gonna cuz he's starting to get more scared and edgey. wooo i don't wann get hit by him he's a seven footer and its gonna hurt. any suggestions to tone him down again i mean when this is all over he might be a bit bitey and thats not good for his size? thanx alot lori Steve


                            • #15
                              Re: Questions questions questions

                              i got the pics of my snake precious and her "mouth rot"
                              I hope this works