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  • I just don't get it.

    Why are people proposing laws in states that have no issues.
    I live in South Carolina and this state very few laws on the books for reptile keepers and there are NO recorded incidents in this state all has been well, but now a group is proposing the same law they put through in North Carolina.

    While the whole law is not garbage because most of us are already responsible keepers, but read the garbage here.
    (B) It is unlawful for a person intentionally or negligently to suggest, entice, invite, challenge, intimidate, exhort, or otherwise induce or aid a person to handle or expose himself in an unsafe manner to a reptile regulated under this chapter.

    This will mean I can not let a customer at a show hold an animal before they buy it.
    Presentations and or photo ops for people at the show is in a grey area so it would be up to what kind of mood the enforcement officer is in. Anyway I will post the whole thing, but my opinion still stands "If there is no issue, Why make one?"
    Oh Virginia watch out I here you are the next target for this bill.


    A BILL
    TO AMEND THE CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1976, BY ADDING CHAPTER 17 TO TITLE 50 SO AS TO PROVIDE FOR THE REGULATION OF VENOMOUS REPTILES, CONSTRICTING SNAKES, AND CROCODILIANS, INCLUDING SPECIFICATIONS FOR HOUSING AND TRANSPORTATION ENCLOSURES, WRITTEN BITE, SAFETY, AND ESCAPE PROTOCOLS; LAW ENFORCEMENT PROCEDURES; REQUIREMENTS TO DETERMINE IF A REPTILE IS REGULATED UNDER THIS CHAPTER AND FOR MAKING FINAL DISPOSITIONS OF THESE REPTILES; ACTIVITIES NOT SUBJECT TO REGULATION UNDER THIS CHAPTER; CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR VIOLATIONS; AND TO PROVIDE THAT CERTAIN CONDUCT CONSTITUTES RECKLESS DISREGARD FOR THE SAFETY OF OTHERS AND SUBJECTS VIOLATORS TO PUNITIVE DAMAGES IN CIVIL ACTIONS.
    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of South Carolina:
    SECTION 1. Title 50 of the 1976 Code is amended by adding:
    "CHAPTER 17
    Venomous Reptiles, Constricting Snakes,
    and Crocodilians
    Section 50-17-10. The intentional or negligent exposure of other human beings to unsafe contact with venomous reptiles, large constricting snakes, or crocodilians is essentially dangerous, injurious and detrimental to public health, safety, and welfare and is declared to be a public nuisance and a criminal offense, to be abated and punished as provided for in this chapter.
    Section 50-17-20. As used in this chapter:
    (1) 'Reptile' means a venomous reptile, large constricting snake, and crocodilian.
    (2) 'Venomous reptile' means a snake or lizard capable of spreading a chemical or biological substance dangerous to humans by spitting, biting or secretion from a gland.
    (3) 'Constricting snake' means:
    (a) reticulated python, python reticulatus;
    (b) Burmese python, python molurus;
    © African rock python, python sebae;
    (d) Amethystine python, Morelia amethistina;
    (e) green anaconda, eunectes murinus; and
    (f) any subspecies or hybrids of items (a) through (e).
    (4) 'Crocodilian' means any of various reptiles of the order crocodylia, including alligators, crocodiles, caimans, and gavials. For purposes of this chapter 'crocodilian' does not include the American alligator (American Mississippiensis).
    Section 50-17-30. (A) It is unlawful for a person to handle a reptile regulated under this chapter in a manner that intentionally or negligently exposes another person to unsafe contact with the reptile.
    (B) It is unlawful for a person intentionally or negligently to suggest, entice, invite, challenge, intimidate, exhort, or otherwise induce or aid a person to handle or expose himself in an unsafe manner to a reptile regulated under this chapter.
    © It is not unlawful to engage in the safe and responsible handling of reptiles for purposes of animal husbandry, exhibition, training, transport, and education.
    Section 50-17-40. (A)(1) It is unlawful for a person to own, possess, use, transport, or traffic in any venomous reptile that is not housed in a sturdy and secure enclosure.
    (2) Permanent enclosures must be designed to be escape-proof, bite-proof, and have an operable lock. Transport containers must be designed to be escape-proof and bite-proof.
    (3) Each enclosure clearly and visibly must be labeled 'Venomous Reptile Inside' with scientific name, common name, appropriate antivenom, and owner's identifying information noted on the container. A written bite protocol must be within sight of permanent housing and must include emergency contact information, local animal control office contact information, the name and location of suitable antivenom, first aid procedures, treatment guidelines, and an escape recovery plan. A copy of the written bite protocol must accompany the transport of any venomous reptile.
    (B) If an escape of a venomous reptile occurs, the owner or possessor of the venomous reptile immediately shall notify local law enforcement.
    Section 50-17-50. (A)(1) It is unlawful for a person to own, possess, use, transport, or traffic in any large constricting snake that is not housed in a sturdy and secure enclosure.
    (2) Permanent enclosures must be designed to be escape-proof and must have an operable lock. Transport containers must be designed to be escape-proof.
    (3) Each enclosure clearly and visibly must be labeled with the scientific name, common name, number of specimens, and owner's identifying information. A written safety protocol and escape recovery plan must be within sight of permanent housing, and a copy of this protocol must accompany the transport of any large constricting snake. The safety protocol must include emergency contact information, local animal control office contact information, and first aid procedures.
    (4) If an escape of a large constricting snake occurs, the owner or possessor immediately shall notify local law enforcement.
    Section 50-17-60. (A)(1) It is unlawful for a person to own, possess, use, transport, or traffic in any crocodilian that is not housed in a sturdy and secure enclosure.
    (2) Permanent enclosures must be designed to be escape-proof and have a fence of sufficient strength to prevent contact between an observer and the crocodilian and must have an operable lock. Transport containers must be designed to be escape-proof.
    (3) A written safety protocol and escape recovery plan must be within sight of permanent housing, and a copy of this protocol must accompany the transport of any crocodilian.
    (B) If an escape of a crocodilian occurs, the owner or possessor immediately shall notify local law enforcement.
    Section 50-17-70. It is unlawful for a person intentionally to release into the wild a nonnative venomous reptile, a large constricting snake, or a crocodilian.
    Section 50-17-80. (A) If a law enforcement officer or animal control officer has probable cause to believe that a provision of this chapter has been or is about to be violated, the officer immediately shall investigate the violation or impending violation and seize the reptile or reptiles involved and deliver the reptile believed to be venomous or a large constricting snake or crocodilian to the Department of Natural Resources or its designated representative for examination for the purpose of ascertaining whether the reptile is regulated under this chapter.
    (B) If the Department of Natural Resources or its designated representative finds that a seized reptile is a reptile regulated under this chapter, the department or its designated representative shall determine final disposition of the reptile in a manner consistent with the safety of the public.
    © If the department or its designated representative finds that the reptile is not a reptile regulated under this chapter, and no criminal warrants or indictments are initiated in connection with the reptile within ten days of the initial seizure, or if a court of law determines that the reptile is not being owned, possessed, used, transported, or trafficked in violation of this chapter, the law enforcement officer within fifteen days shall return the reptile or reptiles to the person from whom they were seized.
    Section 50-17-90. If an examination made by the Department of Natural Resources or its designated representative conducted pursuant to this chapter shows that the reptile is a reptile regulated under this chapter, the officer, making the seizure with probable cause to believe that the reptile is being owned, possessed, used, transported, or trafficked in violation of this chapter, shall arrest all persons violating any provision of this chapter.
    Section 50-17-100. This chapter does not apply to the possession, exhibition, or handling of reptiles by employees or agents of licensed veterinarians, zoos, serpentariums, museums, laboratories, educational or scientific institutions, public and private, in the course of their educational or scientific work or to employees or agents of the Department of Natural Resources who are engaging in conduct within the scope of their authority.
    Section 50-17-110. (A) Except as provided for in subsections (B) and ©, a person violating a provision of this chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction must be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not more than thirty days.
    (B) A person who violates Section 50-17-70 is guilty of a misdemeanor and must be fined not more than twenty-five hundred dollars or imprisoned not more than six months.
    © If a person, other than the owner of a reptile regulated under this chapter, the owner's agent, employee, or a member of the owner's immediate family, suffers a life threatening injury or is killed as the result of a violation of this chapter, the owner of the reptile is guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction must be fined not more than five thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than one year or both.
    Section 50-17-120. A violation of this chapter pursuant to Section 50-17-110(B) or © constitutes reckless disregard for the safety of others and subjects the violator to punitive damages in any civil action that may be brought as a result of the violator's actions.
    Section 50-17-130. Civil or criminal liability imposed on a person for a violation of this chapter does not apply to a violation that resulted from:
    (1) an act of God;
    (2) war;
    (3) other catastrophe; or
    (4) an act or omission of a third party, who is not an employee or agent of the defendant or in a contractual relationship, directly or indirectly, with the defendant, that the defendant could not have prevented or avoided by exercise of proper care and due diligence."
    SECTION 2. This act takes effect upon approval by the Governor.


    And on a side note notice this.
    (3) 'Constricting snake' means:
    (a) reticulated python, python reticulatus;
    (b) Burmese python, python molurus;
    © African rock python, python sebae;
    (d) Amethystine python, Morelia amethistina;
    (e) green anaconda, eunectes murinus; and
    (f) any subspecies or hybrids of items (a) through (e).

    Now am of the opinion laws regulating our hobby period are not in our best interest so I would never support any of them be it on the animals I keep or the ones anyone else keeps, But in the above Constrictor Snakes and then the list, well last time I checked Boas and Ball Pythons where constrictor snakes hell even King snakes could be considered a Constricting snake but oddly they have been left out. The person who wrote this is "in the hobby" it seems he is picking and choosing the animals that have laws put on them to keep the majority of his supporters happy and the minority of keepers(the Big Giants and Venomous) are being hung out to dry. Just my opinion.

  • #2
    Re: I just don't get it.

    This kind of thing needs to be stopped ASAP. It is just the first step in eliminating reptile keeping. If we give them an inch they'll take a mile. I don't live in any of those states but this type of bill passing in any state means it could be next in my state.
    http://www.iherp.com/topshelfmorphs

    http://www.facebook.com/boidsohio

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I just don't get it.

      This kind of thing needs to get the same attention that HR2811 did.


      -Sean in NoCal
      “Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood – the virtues that made America.”
      -Teddy Roosevelt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I just don't get it.

        Originally posted by b3napoleon View Post
        This kind of thing needs to be stopped ASAP. It is just the first step in eliminating reptile keeping. If we give them an inch they'll take a mile. I don't live in any of those states but this type of bill passing in any state means it could be next in my state.
        I agree 100% I can post all the members of South Carolina Government if you would like.

        Also if anyone does not have fax access shoot me your letter and I will fax it for you I have that fax service monkeywrench told me about and it is freakin' awesome.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I just don't get it.

          Originally posted by Sam Bearden View Post
          I agree 100% I can post all the members of South Carolina Government if you would like.

          Also if anyone does not have fax access shoot me your letter and I will fax it for you I have that fax service monkeywrench told me about and it is freakin' awesome.
          Please do Sam. I'll do what I can from Cali.


          -Sean in NoCal
          “Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood – the virtues that made America.”
          -Teddy Roosevelt.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I just don't get it.

            http://www.scstatehouse.gov/housepage/hemail.php
            The bill is with Agriculture, Natural Resources and Environmental Affairs Committee so click on the link and follow that path. I am going to work on some more info for you.
            Here is the sponsors info.

            Representative Herb Kirsh
            District 47 - York Co.
            Contact Address: (H) P.O. Box 31, Clover, 29710

            Bus. (803) 222-3701 Home (803) 222-3768
            © 503A Blatt Bldg., Columbia, 29201

            Bus. (803) 734-3071


            Thanks so much for your help guys believe me we need it. And as you all know I will be right beside anyone with any kind of snake should you ever need my help.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I just don't get it.

              And here is the most important one as he has to sign it in to law.
              Mailing Address:
              Governor Mark Sanford
              Office of the Governor
              P.O. Box 12267
              Columbia, SC 29211
              Fax: 803-734-5167
              governor.sc.gov - Contact the Office of the Governor

              Thanks again...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I just don't get it.

                This country is slowing but surely loosing its way. It will not be long at this rate
                we will have no freedom left.
                Little by little what makes theis country great is being sold and/or legislated away.

                People , the general public is too busy "not caring " to care.

                They are worried about their next Tweet or what color to paint the nails or
                what kind of Beer to drink during the game.

                Pretty soon it'll all be gone!!

                Lar M
                Boas By Klevitz

                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I just don't get it.

                  "A violation of this chapter pursuant to Section 50-17-110(B) or © constitutes reckless disregard for the safety of others and subjects the violator to punitive damages in any civil action that may be brought as a result of the violator's actions.
                  Section 50-17-130. Civil or criminal liability imposed on a person for a violation of this chapter does not apply to a violation that resulted from:
                  (1) an act of God;"

                  I found this part so amusing... what constitutes an act -not- being an act of God exactly?

                  Look, I too am not all too fond of such attempts but... you cannot ignore the fact that some very dangerous animals end up in very wrong hands.

                  I don't know how things go in the US... but what I do know is that perhaps it would be better to try and get in touch with such people and rather than try and prevent their interference entirely, invite them to build a law that you help make... by trying to prevent any interference, you may be leaving it up to ignorant people to decide the future of this hobby... the looming danger of such a law passing already affects sellers... as people are afraid to invest in snakes that may end up being restricted.

                  Won't it be better to try and guide their efforts into the creation of a law that actually makes sense? For instance I do believe that it's not unreasonable to restrict venomous snakes... or huge constrictors such as Anacondas... we're talking about extremely dangerous animals that can easily be introduced into neighborhoods by irresponsible pet owners... Burmese Pythons already became an invading species... imagine what would happen if a dangerous venomous snake became as common?

                  I don't live in the USA... I just know that it is naive to think that the government will not eventually address the issue... and when it does, I think it would be best if the hobbyists were perceived as people who know what they are doing and have had a major part in defining said restrictions...

                  These law suggestions of course are just a way for a senator/someone to "put his name" on a law... so they pop out for all the wrong reasons but... I think the fight against such laws suggestions is simply delaying the inevitable and already the field is suffering due to the "unknown" restriction that may pass.

                  Maybe it is best to try and shape the future rather than resist it.

                  I am not a citizen of the USA, my perception and take on things is limited and I am aware of that. I apologize if something I said was inappropriate... I am just trying to throw my 2 cents hoping they are harmless and possibly slightly helpful

                  Best of luck,

                  Oren

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I just don't get it.

                    Oren that's exactly what so many of us are trying to do by unititing USark
                    We are trying to direct this sort of legislation .

                    The problem is with the people like HSUS who are usually behind this type of legislation.

                    They don't care about level headed science base informed ideas.

                    They are a form of Terrorist ,that's a drastic word but that's exactly
                    the way they behave. Not with violence but with misdirection
                    and out & out fabrications and lies. The use scare tactic based
                    words of lies to push legislation in a certain direction.

                    You can't even use logical arguments to fight , plus they basically
                    have the politicians in there pockets ($$$)

                    Lar M
                    Boas By Klevitz

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I just don't get it.

                      Oren, that's exactly what USARK is trying to do. The problem is that the government is trying to overstep it's constitutionally given authority, as usual.

                      Burms are only a "problem" in the State of Florida. It is the only state that has a climate capable of supporting them long term. Right now the federal gov't is trying to regulate them, now another state is trying. There is NO scientific evidence of Burms or any other tropical snake thriving in the wild in any other state. Florida needs to deal with this problem, not the US gov't.

                      This thing in South Carolina is another knee-jerk reaction to solve a problem that doesn't exsist.


                      -Sean in NoCal
                      “Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood – the virtues that made America.”
                      -Teddy Roosevelt.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I just don't get it.

                        Well I always kind of got the impression that USARK mainly tries to undo law proposals that are brought to the table... that's at least what I saw here and there. I was not aware that efforts were made to create legislation.

                        I hope no one took my words as offensive... I said from the very beginning that my understanding of your situation is partial at best.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I just don't get it.

                          Lar, you are exactly right. I hate to think that everything many men died to defend is being taken away behind closed doors based on who has the most lobbying money.

                          Oren, USARK tries to fight laws that are based on science fiction, not fact. USARK proposes laws that mandate responsible ownership and caging standards without taking away people's right to own these animals. HSUS and PETA (a bunch of tree hugging hippies and eco terrorists that have more lobbying money than the reptile nation) would like to see pet ownership regulated and/or outlawed. PETA shelters have a 95% kill rate because they honestly believe the animal is happier being euthanized than it would be in a loving home.

                          A PETA van was caught on tape picking up puppies and kittens from a vets office, euthanizing them in the back of their van while still in the vet's parking lot, and dumping the bodies in a dumpster behind a walmart shopping center. This is PETA's stance on pet ownership. Millions of Americans donate money to PETA every month because of their commercials and scare tactics, and they use that money to euthanize perfectly healthy, adoptable puppies and lobby politicians to outlaw pet ownership. They believe every animal down to goldfish should exist only in the wild and every captive animal should be set free or euthanized. This is the kind of thing we're fighting against and it's a hard fight when the opponent has you outgunned and fights dirtier than the Viet Cong.
                          http://www.iherp.com/topshelfmorphs

                          http://www.facebook.com/boidsohio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I just don't get it.

                            Well if this isn't just a kick in the shorts. So the guy who has this bill in his hands makes a comment like this. "I don't like snakes, I guess. That's one reason," Kirsh said
                            http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/...on-agenda/

                            Isn't that like saying "ban dogs because I just don't like them"
                            This man should not have this bill in hand. I have written and sent off a bunch of faxes with no reply, but I am not sure what the schedule is for the Federal and State Employees.
                            Anyway thought you would enjoy the read.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I just don't get it.

                              Originally posted by Sam Bearden View Post
                              Well if this isn't just a kick in the shorts. So the guy who has this bill in his hands makes a comment like this. "I don't like snakes, I guess. That's one reason," Kirsh said
                              http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2009/...on-agenda/

                              Isn't that like saying "ban dogs because I just don't like them"
                              This man should not have this bill in hand. I have written and sent off a bunch of faxes with no reply, but I am not sure what the schedule is for the Federal and State Employees.
                              Anyway thought you would enjoy the read.
                              Sam for some reason that link is not working.

                              I for one would like to read it

                              Help me out direct me to the article

                              thanks for posting


                              I found it

                              Snakes, public option on agenda

                              Snakes, public option on agenda The Post and Courier - Charleston SC newspaper

                              Lar M
                              Boas By Klevitz

                              sigpic

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