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Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

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  • Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

    There have been a few comments about snake smuggling if S373 or HR2811 should become a federal law. I know that as of now these comments are made in jest, however behind every joke like this there is a grain of sincerity. And in one of my recent letters to my Senator I discussed the possibility of a reptile black market that could arise as a result of banning the sale, trade, transport, and import of various species. Should either S373 or HR2811 pass and become laws there is a very real possibility that a black market will arise and snake smuggling will occur. HR2811 and S373 will only create problems that have not been logically considered by the legislators pushing these through, and as a result matters will be made worse: for law enforcement, for fish and wildlife offices, and for respectable herp keepers such as ourselves.

    Smugglers and people buying and selling on a black market will:
    1.) likely release reptiles into the wild for fear of being caught. In many areas this will not impact the environment because the reptiles most likely wont survive long enough to breed or feed. However, in areas such as Southern Florida we could see and increase in large constrictors. ..This is to say nothing the total lack of regard of the lives of the animals being released - as many would not survive.

    2.) We will see an increase in poor husbandry, and likely irresponsible owners being hurt by their illegally acquired pets. People with an illegal python or boa aren't going to be running out and buying what they need to to properly take care of the animals for fear of drawing attention to themselves. Not to mention after about 5 years it will be pretty hard to come by some caging/husbandry tools. Nor will there be the resources available to learn proper husbandry. If the ban should go into effect publishers will stop printing books on python and boa husbandry, there will be fewer and fewer communities such as this - especially as the years move on and there are fewer boas and pythons in our care.

    3). the reputations of responsible herp keepers, such as ourselves will be tarnished by all of this - the result could be further amendments that could lead to the collection and destruction of all legally owned pythons and boas; additional species of reptile being added to the Injurious Species list and subsequently banned, and the wrongful prosecution of many responsible herp keepers who legally own banned reptiles.

    This is serious. I beg of each of you not to part take in smuggling or any black market activities. There is a lot at risk now, but engaging in illegal activities will put even more at risk. And yes - smuggling animals covered by the Lacey Act is a federal offense.

    I know this sucks, and none of us want to loose our rights... especially in the light if ignorance and a total disregard for reason and science, but smuggling and black market activities are not the answer. And don't think that by engaging in such activities will show the powers that be that they were wrong, or that it will stick it to them, because it will actually have the opposite effect. It will prove to them that they were right in banning these reptiles, and the only people you will be sticking it to is those of us who are trying to remain responsible.

    We need to keep our heads and stick together.

  • #2
    Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

    I won't say that I will smuggle snakes or sell them illegally. However, I will never give up my snakes no matter what law is passed. I made a post about this in another thread so I won't rant here. I'm just saying that I for one will not give up my snakes because some senator thinks people keeping boas in Ohio is going to cause injury to wildlife.
    http://www.iherp.com/topshelfmorphs

    http://www.facebook.com/boidsohio

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    • #3
      Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

      Originally posted by b3napoleon View Post
      I won't say that I will smuggle snakes or sell them illegally. However, I will never give up my snakes no matter what law is passed. I made a post about this in another thread so I won't rant here. I'm just saying that I for one will not give up my snakes because some senator thinks people keeping boas in Ohio is going to cause injury to wildlife.
      I agree. I'd never smuggle snakes either, but I "refuse" to part with my snakes.

      If I should ever move to another state.... I'll take "ALL" my snakes with me. It's part of being a responsible snake/reptile owner. Any law that tries to keep me from being a responsible snake/reptile owner, is "WRONG!!". I will not compromise my moral beliefs/responsibilities, because of "ANY" ill conceived law that may/or may not, be passed.

      I have to do what's "RIGHT!!"

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      • #4
        Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

        Originally posted by Linda View Post
        I will not compromise my moral beliefs/responsibilities, because of "ANY" ill conceived law that may/or may not, be passed.

        I have to do what's "RIGHT!!"
        Amen to that!


        -Sean in NoCal
        “Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood – the virtues that made America.”
        -Teddy Roosevelt.

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        • #5
          Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

          Originally posted by b3napoleon View Post
          I won't say that I will smuggle snakes or sell them illegally. However, I will never give up my snakes no matter what law is passed. I made a post about this in another thread so I won't rant here. I'm just saying that I for one will not give up my snakes because some senator thinks people keeping boas in Ohio is going to cause injury to wildlife.
          i second this dude i still cant believe it

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          • #6
            Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

            I'd rather do time than part with fruitloop.

            I live in canada, but if this bill passes than its only a matter of time before i can't buy snakes here anymore.

            I also sent a letter to a number of senators and obama that included (among other things) the possibility of a black market.

            would the government rather keeps tabs on the snakes in possesion or let it get out of hand?

            what SHOULD be done is a liscensing system. something like a test and a sponsorship by a registered big snake keeper. that way we atleast know that herpers have a level of knowledge required to make responsible descisions. the problem is (atleast here in canada) anybody can walk into a pet shop and buy that cute little 2 foot retic for $150. then when i gets to 6 feet they cant get rid of it.

            We proved in iraq/afghanistan that brute force and taking away something does solve the issue, infrastructure solves the issue. the states just cant seem to learn that.

            I'm in full support of a liscensing system, that would solve alot of problems.

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            • #7
              Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

              You guys in Canada better buy from us now. You may not be able to get from us much longer.

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              • #8
                Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

                Yes there WILL be a Black Market!!!!!!....Prices will GO THROUGH THE ROOF for bypassing the LAW......

                And consider this....In-breading, to a devistating effect for the ones that do obey the law....What, there are 3, 4 of 5 of us on here from GA????...

                Who, where do I get my new stock from??????....Godda find some place...

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                • #9
                  Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

                  Originally posted by davenkelly View Post
                  Yes there WILL be a Black Market!!!!!!....Prices will GO THROUGH THE ROOF for bypassing the LAW......

                  And consider this....In-breading, to a devistating effect for the ones that do obey the law....What, there are 3, 4 of 5 of us on here from GA????...

                  Who, where do I get my new stock from??????....Godda find some place...
                  You guys better believe that smugglers are watching this whole process and drooling over the idea of yet another profit stream. As we speak the same people who regularly take Canadian pot into Seattle to trade for coke and guns are thinking about how to start making connections in the reptile world so they have yet another item they can trade. And yeah the prices will be substantially higher. This is just so frustrating and senseless to me, I can't even imagine what is going in the minds of the people like Jeff Ronne and Clay English, Peter Kahl and Mr. Sharp. To have your government arbitrarily decide you are an undesirable and that your lifes persuit is suddenly a crime against society, I couldn't handle it. I would do something very stupid in that situation, my hat is off to all those who stand to lose everything and have the strength to not want to take the rest of the world with them.

                  Mat.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Snake Smuggling/ Black Market - Don't Do it!

                    Edit: While my opinion may be seen as being in direct opposition to that of others expressed here, I don't want anyone to think that I am criticizing their views or perspective.

                    I don't think that a stupid law makes me a criminal. I intend to buy, produce and sell the boas I want even if this law goes forward. I will try to establish a relationship with the breeders I want to work with before anything actually happens, and if they are willing to cooperate, I will drive to their facility to pick up my new animals.

                    I don't think that even if any such ridiculous law is passed it will be enforced with anything resembling the resources it would take to make it work, nor do I think it will stand long term. If nothing else, perhaps we can get a Republican President or a Republican Congress to change things in our favor. I thinkt that those that are willing to discreetly ignore this nonsense will be in better shape once we make it go away.

                    Viva la revolucion!


                    "Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will."

                    - Frederick Douglass


                    "Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion."

                    - Oscar Wilde


                    "The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment."

                    - Robert M. Hutchins


                    "Politics is but the common pulse-beat, of which revolution is the fever-spasm."

                    - Wendell Phillips

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