[Mites] Every snake is infested from same petstore

[Spinytail]

So every snake I buy from a specific pet store in Oceanside, CA has required quarantine and PAM treatment. I end up doing rooms and other cages to prevent travelers. This is a pain in the ***. Is it normal for large petstores to not be able to control this and what is protocol for telling them?

[Noelle7206]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

UGH! It's not normal (but not "rare" either) and it's definitely not acceptable. Mites are thought to play a role in serious & fatal diseases (like IBD) and can themselves kill small snakes just from loss of blood.
Have to wonder why you've gotten more than one snake from them??? Yes, you might try talking to the owner or manager, but no way to know if that will help. You might also call your local animal control to
see if they are in violation of any laws...in case your 'gentle suggestions' get nowhere. You should not patronize them & let them know why you won't be back...unless they clean up their act. Very sad for the
animals in their store...good luck! If you have a local herp society, you might let them know, & see what they say.

[bcr_229]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

1) Every new critter you get should go through at least 3 months of QT anyway, even if it arrives healthy and mite-free.

2) Why would you ever set foot in that store again after the first bad experience? Even if you don't get a new snake, mites can come home on you or even on supplies or bedding that you purchase from that shop.

3) I would leave negative reviews of that store everywhere I could, including Fauna, the Facebook reptile feedback forums, Yelp, Google, etc.

[Kung Fu Joe]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

I wouldn't buy any snake from a store like that. Let them correct the problem from the source. Why risk the welfare of your animals?

[Spinytail]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

Thanks for all the responses. My problem is they are a big name in the hobby, and have a great selection I can pick up locally. Because they are so big, I was hoping someone else would have complained by the time I picked up more snakes. They sell at the shows as well, so I am sure others have the same experience.

[Spinytail]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

Either way, I will send an email to the owners.

[Noelle7206]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

.... My problem is they are a big name in the hobby, and have a great selection I can pick up locally. Because they are so big, I was hoping someone else would have complained by the time I picked up more snakes. They sell at the shows as well, so I am sure others have the same experience.

All the more reason to complain! Look at all the misery they are spreading...think of the animals that suffer & die from mites, untreated; many new owners are totally clueless until (or even after) it's too late & their pet dies.
So make some 'noise'! I do not consider sick animals to be a "great selection"...not ever.

Emails are private and VERY easily deleted; if you want to accomplish anything, I'd suggest you make a point of talking with the manager on a nice busy Saturday when there's lots of people in the store...politely, of course.

[Spinytail]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

All the more reason to complain! Look at all the misery they are spreading...think of the animals that suffer & die from mites, untreated; many new owners are totally clueless until (or even after) it's too late & their pet dies.
So make some 'noise'! I do not consider sick animals to be a "great selection"...not ever.

Emails are private and VERY easily deleted; if you want to accomplish anything, I'd suggest you make a point of talking with the manager on a nice busy Saturday when there's lots of people in the store...politely, of course.

I ended up sending an email, with a very detailed explanation and questioned if they are doing anything to prevent. I will see how they respond before making a bigger deal. I guess I want to weigh how concerned they are and what others feel about the difficulty of preventing mites in a high volume petstore.

The mites I found where minimal so it was not an infestation. I am still trying to figure out how I would control if I owned a petstore with that much turn over. Seems you need to clean and PAM every cage and PAM all space around, and behind cages and soak all new snakes. With amphibians that might not be practical? So essentially mites can be and lay eggs in amphibian or lizard cages, then migrate to snake cages, even if treated. I'd be curious if anyone knows of a large petstore who does online sales/shows (high volume) that has control of snake mites 100%, i.e. found a good process that insures they do not have mites migrating from one cage to the next (that is the disease issue)?

[bcr_229]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

After too many bad experiences bringing home either mites or sick animals from local retailers there is exactly one that I use now. It doesn't have one large retail space like most, it rents four addresses in a small strip mall, with only one is open to the public as a retail space. The other spaces are used for breeding rodents and insects for feeders, there are several quarantine rooms, and a few rooms for their own snake breeding projects.

Since I spend about $300/month there just in feeders, they gave me a tour a while back. They have amphibians and invertebrates in one area and reptile QT in another. Since they have four spaces, each with its own HVAC, they can treat reptiles in QT for mites using permethrin-10 and Hot Shot No-Pest strips without risk to the tarantulas, feeder insects, and amphibians housed in a different space.

QT for a resale reptile is a week. Yes, that's short but it's more than most retailers do. It's basically enough time to ensure that the critter is eating, doesn't have a URI, and is mite-free.

They also don't purchase from wholesalers or importers of WC animals, only local breeders who have decent reputations.

[Noelle7206]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

It's a challenge for sure, but it CAN be done responsibly. In my opinion, there is so such thing as a "minimal mite infestation" as they multiply at warp speed and often go unnoticed. Buying from a retailer that sells
infested animals tells you SO much about how & where they buy (what kind of quality you are supporting with every purchase). To me, it's a big RED FLAG that says "it's ALL about the money, honey"!

I haven't had to deal with mites in a very long time, & have never used what most ppl use now ('PAM'). I only ever had 2 snakes, new, from different sources, that had mites & I got rid of them before any spread to
my other snakes. Back then (LOL) we used a small piece of No Pest Strip (like a half-inch square) suspended in a cage so the reptile couldn't come in contact, & left that in the cage for ONLY 8-10 hours (minimizing
but not altogether blocking the airflow in the cage), and repeating that in several days "to make sure". I never had any illness in my snakes from doing that, but the stuff was very toxic if over-used. I remember
seeing a pet-store where they had stuck a long piece of flea-collar in the snake cage (they were crawling over it!) and rest assured that those snakes may not have died before they were sold, but they didn't have
much of a lifespan, to the complete mystification of their owners & in spite of all treatment. You can also drown MOST mites by soaking a snake in SHALLOW water with mild soap (Ivory) added for about an hour, but
some mites may still survive around the snake's face (eyes, nostrils/heat pits, chin).

[Spinytail]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

They did get back to me acting concerned, and said they will forward to the store manager. Also, offered to comp me some medication and mentioned they do treat all new snakes. I will likely respond with a thank you, and reiterate the danger of the mites, over just needing medication or them simply being a pest, but a vector to the spread of deadly disease (I am sure they are aware).

I did use no-pest strip cut into cubes and placed between two deli cup lids (to keep from contact) in the past before PAM. I am well aware of treating even under petstore conditions as I have worked at three petstores and an actual wholesaler many years ago. I just am unaware of the new strains we have, if they are impossible to control and/or getting harder to control over the years. It seems disease is better understood and yet we have more disease than when I first got into this hobby. After many years, it appears snake mites and phorid flies are the major vectors here and those are what I find at these petstores... it is sad that we have to deal with this.

[bcr_229]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

No mites are not more difficult to control today than years ago. In fact given the plethora of treatment options - permethrin, Reptile Spray, No-Pest Strips, ivermectin, heat, etc. - there is no reason anyone should be selling snakes that have mites.

[Noelle7206]

Re: Every snake is infested from same petstore

I've spent my share of time in pet stores & some things you see them do make it so much worse (with respect to mites & diseases): they use cages that are attached together in large banks, & they put new snakes
into cages without cleaning first (even reusing the old litter), and they often house them together too. If a snake dies, they may not even disinfect the cage it was in, & they re-offer prey not taken by other snakes.
While new min. wage employees may not already know better, it's the job of management to train & see that things are actually done correctly. When they don't, it's because they don't care enough to do it right.
And remember, when they get a shipment of reptiles in, they're already exposed to each other on the way to the store, multiplying their chances of "catching" things.