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  • Any of you guys care to comment on this

    Might be interesting to some of you guys

    Is this ban a good idea after all? - Reptile Forums UK

  • #2
    Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

    Blade, I think you made a very good argument in our defense.

    One thing that escapes me is all the worrying done over these ecosystems. Ecosystems are not "fragile". They are hearty and they will adapt and evolve when a new species is introduced. This is what they do.

    If you look at the everglades a hundred years ago it would look completely different than it does today. Go back a 100 years further and it would've looked even more different and so on. It's in a constant state of change. If we are really worried then why not stop our OWN incursion into these wilds. That won't happen. Too much is based on tourism and urban sprawl to address the truly invasive species. US!

    That brings me to another argument Nelson and his cronies like to use. Tourism. He thinks somehow this will have an adverse effect on tourism. Really? I have never once entertained the idea of going to Florida and visiting the ENP...until now! Now that they have wild specimens of Burmese Pythons that I could possibly observe in the wild I would love to go. I mean, I would never have a chance to get to their so-called "native" habitat but Florida is in easy access. I know I'm not the only one who likes the idea of having Giant constrictors in the wild, in such easy access even if they won't admit it publicly.

    Anyways, that's my take. LOL!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

      Yep. It's a crock of crap. Whether or not non-native species pose a threat to native species isn't even the question. The fact is the proposed "Python Ban" does absolutely nothing to affect the continued spread of the existing population of Burms in the Everglades(or any other non-native population of anything anywhere) nor does it do anything to prevent more being released. In fact, by devaluing the animals, this bill may actually encourage more unscrupulous people to release their animals.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

        the problem with the OP is that he is under the assumption that the USGS risk assessment is a LEGITIMATE risk assessment. apparently he hasn't read it... or even PART of it. the first 5 pages alone condemn it as nothing more than speculation, based on very little (if any, in some cases) scientific proof.

        take away the paper, and you have NO basis (other than a "no pets" agenda, compliments of HSUS) for such a ban.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

          Originally posted by dangles View Post
          the problem with the OP is that he is under the assumption that the USGS risk assessment is a LEGITIMATE risk assessment. apparently he hasn't read it... or even PART of it. the first 5 pages alone condemn it as nothing more than speculation, based on very little (if any, in some cases) scientific proof.

          take away the paper, and you have NO basis (other than a "no pets" agenda, compliments of HSUS) for such a ban.
          Of course bro, this obvious to us but for the sake of argument say the USGS report is accurate. This in itself is mind boggling since how can the United States Geological Service report on the potential habitat of Large Constrictor Snakes be anything but speculation at best!?!

          Anyways, back to my point, how is Burms in the everglades really a problem? No one has even made it clear. Is it the demise of the Key Largo Wood rat? Would the ENP suddenly not exist if Burms flourished? Are you telling me that NO animals can co-exist with the Burmese Pythons? Sure the look of the ENP would change a little bit but that's what it's SUPPOSED to do. These animals will either adapt or die. Some may even take it's place and this is the wonder of nature. I have one truth that is a simple fact. The ENP WILL NOT look as it does now when our grand children and great grand children see it, regardless if we eradicate the Burm or not.

          From every single angle this legislation is garbage. Even the fact that a problem even exists is in question. Then you have to consider if there REALLY IS a problem will this legislation even fix it. IMO (and many others far more qualified) the answer is a resounding NO! It won't fix a thing. Then there's the political corruption of using false data to back big money lobbyists for political gain. This has ramifications far beyond the Reptile Nation. It continues an ugly precedence of American politics. Last but certainly not least is the impact this will have financially on hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens.

          There is absolutely NO angle in which this bill would be justified, warranted or without serious detriment to our country's economy and the freedoms of our citizenry to pursue what makes them happy. NONE!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

            Bladeblaster can bring up the point that a specific environment only available extreme
            South Florida exists to support Python / Boas

            I believe Indigo are ranging all across the extreme Southern states,
            Texas , Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia , Carolina's

            Redirecting the point of fact that the USGS Report is Science fiction not science

            Lar M
            Boas By Klevitz

            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

              Originally posted by Boa Amarali View Post
              Bladeblaster can bring up the point that a specific environment only available extreme
              South Florida exists to support Python / Boas

              I believe Indigo are ranging all across the extreme Southern states,
              Texas , Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia , Carolina's

              Redirecting the point of fact that the USGS Report is Science fiction not science
              Sorry I didn't understand that first part.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

                Actually the Indigo Snake's habitat is the well drained, sandy soiled, pine forest habitat associated with Gopher Tortoise and Pocket Gophers. They don't do well in swampy locations. So the "Indigo Connection" is bogus.

                I spent five years performing endangered species surveys here in the southeast (I know of what I speak).

                Mark

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

                  I live in Florida and have been to the ENP several times and not once seen a python. Not to say they aren't there but they make it out like the pythons are roaming the trails eating tourists! Not hardly! lol

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

                    Originally posted by bladeblaster View Post
                    Sorry I didn't understand that first part.
                    [IMG]can bring up the point that a specific environment only available extreme
                    South Florida exists to support Python / Boas
                    The point I'm making here is that in the U.S. Boas & Pythons can only live
                    in extreme South Florida .There is no other suitable habitat for them in
                    the other 48 contiguous states

                    If Boas could survive in America , North of Hermosillo, Sonora,
                    Lat 28.988282
                    Long -110.961914

                    boa constrictor subspecies occurs on the west coast of Mexico as far north as Hermosillo, Sonora, and on the east coast north to southern Tamaulipas.

                    The state of Tamaulipas is located in the northeast of Mexico (22 120, 27 400 north latitude and 97 080,100 080 west longitude)
                    Latitude. 25.8833333°, Longitude. -97.5°



                    If they could live in the U.S. Then they would already be living up here

                    You understand my point,the only place they can live is South Florida
                    Yet they are nothttp://forums.kingsnake.com/images/smiles/wink.gif[/IMG]

                    Lar M
                    Boas By Klevitz

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

                      Originally posted by Boa Amarali View Post
                      The point I'm making here is that in the U.S. Boas & Pythons can only live
                      in extreme South Florida .There is no other suitable habitat for them in
                      the other 48 contiguous states

                      If Boas could survive in America , North of Hermosillo, Sonora,
                      Lat 28.988282
                      Long -110.961914

                      boa constrictor subspecies occurs on the west coast of Mexico as far north as Hermosillo, Sonora, and on the east coast north to southern Tamaulipas.

                      The state of Tamaulipas is located in the northeast of Mexico (22 120, 27 400 north latitude and 97 080,100 080 west longitude)
                      Latitude. 25.8833333°, Longitude. -97.5°



                      If they could live in the U.S. Then they would already be living up here

                      You understand my point,the only place they can live is South Florida
                      Yet they are nothttp://forums.kingsnake.com/images/smiles/wink.gif[/IMG]
                      Ah yes I see what you are saying now

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

                        I find it highly amusing that people over here in the UK have been given their chance to help out on this situation but haven't done anything but whinge and moan about it. Blade has posted this thread over on our other forum and as of yet no one has come over to say anything. I am giving you my support and agree with what Blade is saying here in the UK.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

                          Howdy!

                          First, I have read the paper and I realise the hypotheses drawn from the risk assessment are not concrete, the shear nature of the study prevents it. But, if all is left the way it is I guess we will find out either way if alien species are fantastic novelties or if they are actually capable of causing harm.

                          I also realise that allot is based on speculation where field observational data of the species in question is not avaliable. This is however not 'wild' speculation as you may choose to believe.

                          Finally, I have not stated the ban IS a good idea, I asked. I do though whole heartedly see that something must be done. Did anyone else read the paper? I have read other bits and bobs surrounding this debate but please feel free to try and sway me with other literature.

                          Finally finally, the case for the risk to the indigo snake was one of many brought up. Perhaps because it is a relatively "high profile" endangered critter? And in all honesty its feasible. What about the rest of your native critters anyway? IBD in pitvipers? Speculative yes but an absolute disaster waiting to happen if true. What about all the other parasites and pathogens that may effect your susceptible native species?

                          Someone said something like "should we humans stop encroaching on natural habitat?" Um, yes!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

                            I live in Missouri (that's the middleish of the USA) where it ranges from -20F to 110-115F. I don't think something living in a bush or a hole in the ground that needs 82-85F 24/7 will make it. It's way colder up north, and it's hotter down south , but that's about the variance we deal with.

                            It'd be like throwing the snake in the Oven then the deep freezer and expecting it to come out ready to eat your family dog and youngest child...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Any of you guys care to comment on this

                              It comes down to one thing in ENP enviromently that they are worried about,
                              and that's the burms decreasing the # of............ FLORIDA PANTHERS.

                              Comment

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