Lori, I need some help

[eViL_KaRoT]

My python is acting very funny. :'( :-/ ??? Almost like he is drunk. His head is wobbling all over the place, he's running into walls. I'm not sure what's wrong with the guy. His tongue is active, but it seems that when he is flicking it out it gets "stuck" on what ever he is tasting. Plus he has this grayish, black coloration on the tip of his tongue. He may have had this previously and I never noticed it before. But I thought he just had a pink tongue. He's moving about like he's retard or drunk. His heads moving all over the place, he moving like he confused or something. Now I'm sure you remember about my mite problem. He was in that cage that had the problem. Well at first I did make the mistake of using the no pest strips like I was told. But after you had told me of the dangers of the no pest strips and the chemicals that are in it and that Pythons are extremely susceptible to it I took it out immediately. Took the snakes out of the cage, washed it down totally, let it all air out and boiled all the stuff that was in the tank, before putting them back in. Well it was about that time, when the no pest strip was in the tank, that he starting acting that way. My girlfriend noticed it before I did. I saw him moving around and seriously investigating the tank, but I thought he was just becoming more active. Until last nite,when I really watched him. And he just was not looking good. I took him out of the tank and just to see what would happen, I laid him on his back. He was able to right himself, but he was kind of retarded about it. So last nite I cleaned the cage completely out. Washed everything down. I actually seriously cleaned out two of the cages. I place the two boas that were in the original cage back in and took the boa that was in the 2nd cage and place him with the other two. They used to live together before, so I figured that wouldn't cause any problems. and I place the python in the new tank all my himself so that we can watch him. Plus that's one of the tanks I hadn't used the no pest strips in at all. Now I remember you saying that you had rescued a couple of pythons or boas that were treated with the no pest strips. You had soaked them in some warm water for awhile and they came around. How long did that take? I did soak him for a couple of hours, constantly changing the water. 1) so that the water stayed warm and 2) so that any poisons that were in the water that secreted out of his skin. That seemed to make things better a little bit. But when I dried him off and placed him back in the cage he was still acting a bit drunk. Not quite as bad, but still slightly drunk. Could it be from the no pest strips? If so, what can I do to help him? Could it be IBD? If that's the case, is that curable? I really need some help!!!!!!!!!

[LORI]

Re: Lori, I need some help

UGH.. What your describing sounds like what happened with others who have used the no pset strip/vapona thing for mites possibly. Last case was a baby burm that had been in a cage with vapona in it for about one week's time...Per the vet..arghh. here's what we did for that snake. [ Not in person either..was over the internet and also the phone that we guided them in treatment for the snake btw.]
We had them soak the snake for 15 minute periods of time in lukewarm water.....like 3 times per day. They did this for about a week's time also..the soaking that is. NEVER let the snake drink any of the water also ! The water would contain any of the chemical[s] that were being soaked off of the snake. Drinking the water would defeat the purpose of the soaking basically.
Also removed the vapona from the cage and cleaned it thoroughly with 100% bleach..which was rinsed out incessantly also afterwards with HOT water.
Tossed ALL of the cage ornamentations she had in there for the snake also... including the water bowl. Just placed new bowl for water in caging for the snake after that. Just a minute amount of the vapona/etc in the bowl would keep the poison going into the snake when it drinks. Remeber, this stuff is basically a chemical that becomes airborne within the cage and does settle out onto anything that is in the cage also..including the water bowl. If this happens, then anytime that water is placed into the bowl.. it will reactivate the chemical residual that is present, if there is any that is. Sort of defeats the whole purpose basically that your trying to accomplish in riding the snake of the toxin.
Basically..poisoning of the snake really has nothing that a vet can do for it that we know of at all. :'(

Keep that up.. call your vet and see if they have any
suggestion[s] for de-poisoning the snake at all...Which I don't think, nor have I heard of such as yet either that they do. If it is the vapona/no pest strips that has caused this,, then it could still be in the environment and that is detering the snake from getting rid of the poison from it's system and remaining as such also.
Heck place the snake into a tote, airholes and brand new even, with newspaper as a substrate even with a new water bowl ..while continuing to soak it daily to rid of the chemical. Change the newspaper EVERY time you soak the snake also. See if that makes a difference possibly.

Could it be from the no pest strips? If so, what can I do to help him?

YUP..could be ??? See above ^^^

Could it be IBD? If that's the case, is that curable?

HMM.. Could be..is a remote possibility..BUT I doubt it seeing as you used the vapona/no pest strip thing recently. I would lean towards that being the cause of the snake's "issues" atm actually. Plus, there are MANY symptoms for the IBD also. You have only listed off one of them AND even that one you have not stated to the full extent that it hits a snake with IBD either from what I have read here.
NOPE.. :'( IBD is NOT a curable disease at all. It strikes hard and fast and death is a given in a short time span.. with a ball python.

QUARANTINE.. This snake from your others in case it is not the vapona/no pest strip thing that is going on also.

[eViL_KaRoT]

Re: Lori, I need some help

I have already quarantined him. He is in his own tank now. One that was not treated with the no pest strips. I have changed the water bowl and have remove any decor that was in the tank. I'll continue with the soaks. My girlfriend is at home all the time due to a current lay off, so she'll be able to soak her during the day while I'm at work. Thanks for the input. You don't know how happy it makes me to hear that I've already started doing the right thing, after such a s5.gif up that I did with using the no pest strips!!! I am so worry about him. I'll continue with the continual cleaning of the cage and soaking of him. Hopefully he'll snap out of it. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again Lori, I was so worried. I'm still worried, but at least I know I'm doing everything that I can. :-/

[Blackmarked]

Re: Lori, I need some help

Why are vets in the U.S so retarded when it comes to reptiles? I have got the general impression that none of you guys trust them at all. Are there no real reptile specialists or too few of them to go around? Where I live there is a 24 hour vet hospital where they at any time during the day have at least one herp vet working and from what I know through people who have visited them they really know their stuff and have never given bad advice. Can't say myself though, my herps have never need a vet.

[eViL_KaRoT]

Re: Lori, I need some help

There are just too few reptile vets to go around. Unfortunantly, most vets focus there practice on the "common" pets. Reptiles, unfortunantly don't fall into that category. I'm lucky enough to have a vet in my area, who is very well versed in herpetology. He and one of his assistants actually raise several reptiles. But not everyone is that lucky. :-/

[Red]

Re: Lori, I need some help

don't smack your self around for using no-pest strips... That is what alot of people think is the right thing to do... That is just how it is.... As far as you knew you where doing the right thing... and you took them out right when we told you too... so you are doing good... better then most.... I hope your snake snaps out of this... Good luck...
Eric aka...Red

[eViL_KaRoT]

Re: Lori, I need some help

Thanks Red for the words of encouragement. I know I didn't totally mess up. I just feel bad for hurting one of my babies. :-/ :'( But thanks again.

[Blackmarked]

Re: Lori, I need some help

By the way I forgot to say I hope your pal is o.k. Also as red said you did the best you could, better than most people I think.

[LORI]

Re: Lori, I need some help

Why are vets in the U.S so retarded when it comes to reptiles? I have got the general impression that none of you guys trust them at all.

I don't think it is just the US vets that are like this ..for the majority. We have heard of this from all over the globe..some places that one would think there are more vets that have the knowledge for treating herps even. Vet visit = $$...So why would a vet that hasn't a clue turn down a visit or state that they are clueless when it comes to herps at all ? That would be like them stating that they are not "professionals" in their field ya know. Afterall.. their field is animals ya know. reptiles are a form of an animal I have run into more vets that will ot admit their lack of knowledge/education specialty in reptiles than those that will admit such willingly in my experiences.

BTW... I trust my vet far beyond the basics when it comes to treating my reptiles. I have more respect for him also due to his willingness to "step down" and admit when he does not have the knowledge and /or admits to such as well when it comes to reptiles. I refer anyone locally that has reptiles to him, even hand them his card [ I keep a supply of them on hand ;D]. My vet truly cares for the reptiles as a life form.. When I have a serious case here..I get phone calls from him for updates between appointments for the reptile from him all the time inquiring of the animal's status etc. When I have a serious case here..he also tells me what his schedule is and he is available when not o/c if I need him for the reptile other than those times.
A visit with him does not consist of just a merely 15 minute time frame either. I have had visits that exam room time with the vet has taken upwards of 2 hours sometimes. All that time is spent working on the animal I have brought in..Where I have learned a TON of what I am able to do in relation to the reptiles in fact ..such as removal of necrotic tissue, dx'g certain symptoms and the "toss up" of their relative tx's on up through conversing the "options" relative to a reptiles problems and which tx plan would be most sufficient for the reptile. My vet also refers others out to me personally at various times to "relate my opinion" in relation to something going on with their reptile and also for rescue/rehab. I think that my reptile vet and I have a great understanding and level of respect for each other when it comes to reptiles. Now if I could only get him to write me out scrips for full bottles of Baytril like his predecessor did. :-/

evil K.. you have done what others have reccomended..Hopefully the snake will come out of it with what your doing now for it. In keeping reptiles..we ALL have/will make mistakes that SHOULD become a lesson learned for future endeavors in keeping herps....for ourselves AND others that we relate such to. That's where the difference lies.
GOOD LUCK with the snake and keep us posted on how it's doing also. ;D

[LORI]

Re: Lori, I need some help

OH..I forgot this also fyi...
What is happening with your snake is that it is having a type of neuro problem as a result of the toxin it was exposed to. It affects the central nervous system of the snake..including balance. The eradication of the toxin will revert the symptoms back to a level of "normal" for the snake. To date I have as yet come across a case that the snake suffered permanent symptoms after such time of remedial tx also. this given IF this is what is your snake's problem that is also. Which, as I have stated, I beleive is the case here.

[eViL_KaRoT]

Re: Lori, I need some help

So, this probably won't kill him. That's very good to hear. Actually, just after taking him out of the tank completely, with out anything that was in the previous tank in his new tank and the daily soaking,(which we started today soaking 3 times a day like you reccomended), he is already starting to act a little better. Especially when he's IN the water. He still crawls around like he's drunk, but he's doing a little better. BTW, about his tongue....Is it normal to have a blackish/gray tip to it? Or is that possibly from the toxin's? Like I said previously, I never really noticed the tip before all this happened. So, I'm just wondering if it's normal or not. You know, like a calico cat may have black spot on their nose, could a python have a black tip on the tongue. It seems to be lightening up, but I could just be imagining this, you know hoping that he is just getting better. Thanks again for all you words of encouragement. You have no Idea how much that means to me. Experience persons, telling you that you are doing all the right things and you didn't mess up on purpose. That means a lot, thanks again!!!!!

[LORI]

Re: Lori, I need some help

BTW, about his tongue....Is it normal to have a blackish/gray tip to it? Or is that possibly from the toxin's? Like I said previously, I never really noticed the tip before all this happened. So, I'm just wondering if it's normal or not. You know, like a calico cat may have black spot on their nose, could a python have a black tip on the tongue

HMM.. Well ya found one thing I am in the dark with atm. I never really noticed the tongue on the ball pythons and what coloring it is naturally myself. I'll have to look at mine and see what coloring is like I guess. Sorry..couldn't tell ya either way atm at all. ??? maybe someone else could ???

Thanks again for all you words of encouragement. You have no Idea how much that means to me. Experience persons, telling you that you are doing all the right things and you didn't mess up on purpose. That means a lot, thanks again!!!!!

NP.. Like I said.. ALL of us have our share of "what we have done that wasn't correct" in relation to our herps in the past.. and I'm sure that we'll have more of it in the future also as time goes on. NONE of us are perfect..allthough there are some that think they are LOL. Just try to do the best and ALWAYS with the herp[s] in mind is what counts. and..
Your welcome

[Snakewife]

Re: Lori, I need some help

Hey evilK,
I have four pythons, and they all have pink tongues, but at times, I do notice that their tongues seem to get pale or greyish. I haven't related it to anything, It just happens. sometimes for a day or two. but then it turns back to pink. so I don't think it is indicating any kind of problem.

Lisa aka snakewife s7.gif

[eViL_KaRoT]

Re: Lori, I need some help

Yeah, it seems to be going back to pink already. ;D I just wasn't sure and I was curious if that could be a part of the problem. Thanks for the input.

[Red]

Re: Lori, I need some help

[color=Red]Ya he probley just forgot to brush his tongue.. lol
Eric aka...Red[color]