Heating and Humidity Concerns

[2babyboas]

My thermostate is about 79-80 degrees during the day and drop to 75 at night. I have a 55g tank with a ceramic heat and 55g under tank pad. The thermostate is in the middle of the tank and not to close to the top or bottom. I have foil paper taped to the inside of the lid with an area cut out for light & the heat lamp. I have to move the light and replace it with a wet towel to keep the humidity up to 65-70%. My perv/col boa will stay on the vine near the heat lamp. The sand boa will stay over by the water all night and when I check on her she is cold. So I have to move her under the hide rock or log where the heating pad is every morning. I've only had them for a week and neither has eaten yet. I'm worried about the temp effecting their appetitie. What else can I do to increase the temp or should I? I was considering moving the thermostate over to the hot side and getting another therm for the cool side.

[dangles]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

welcome to the forum!

if you haven't already, check out the ultimate care guide on the left side of the page. if you have, READ IT AGAIN

now, for your situation...

are you keeping those both in the same cage? because that is a DEFINITE NO-NO, especially with different species. that's just asking for a disaster and they should be separated immediately.

i can't speak for sand boas, but for the boa constrictor, this is what i recommend:

do you measure the hotspot temp? because that's where the tstat should be - directly on the hotspot.

the hotspot should be no lower than 86, and no higher than 92. anywhere in between is ok.

don't change the tstat during the night. nightdrop is not needed for boas.

the cool side should be no lower than 78 (day and night).

the humidity is ok anywhere between 50 and 80 (i've heard several different opinions on that, so that range reflects all of them)

is the ceramic heat emitter directly over the heat pad? because that's where it should be, unless you can't get your ambient temperature up. then you can put is over the cooler side as long as the cool side doesn't get too warm (over 82).

if you've only had them a week, it's OK that they still haven't eaten. it's not recommended you feed them right away. most people wait between a week and a month (the bigger the boa the longer the wait).

those are some good starting points. so follow those, and re-read the ultimate care guide. this will answer (probably) all of your questions and solve (most) of the problems you may come up against.

[MLynch]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

Assuming those are your warm side temps that is a bit cold. If all you have for radiating heat is the UTH and a CHE for 55gal tank then I would suggest getting at the very least one more dome for a CHE or incandescent bulb. Actually I'd probably get two more. I'm not a fan of CHE's, but that's just me. I prefer incandescent bulbs, and you can always just use red nocturnal/heat bulbs if you don't want to actually add light to the enclosure.

Glass tanks are notoriously difficult to maintain even temps and humidity without serious modifications. ...I know - I have two. They aren't as large as yours, but I've faced similar issues.

One of the drawbacks to putting a radiating heat element on the top of a tank is that it creates one hell of an up draft - which sucks the humidity right out of the tank. You could spritz the tank and get the humidity right where you want it and then 20 minutes later it's below the ideal range.

There are a couple of things you can do: get more radiating heat elements for the top of the cage. The screen top lets too much air out so you loose precious heat and humidity. As your warm air escapes the cage it will fall to match the ambient temp of the room - and if that's around 72-74 degrees you are going to have on cold little boa. If you don't want to raise the room's temp you need to get some plexi and cut it to fit approx 2/3 of the tank top. This will help by restricting air flow and keeping warm air in the tank - along with humidity. However, you still have 1/3 of the tank top open, and with CHEs or incandescent bulbs up there you are going to have an up draft. You're humidity will be lost at a slower rate once the plexi is in place, but it will still be lost.

What I do is cover 2/3 of the screen with plexi, and the other 1/3 with a double layer of 1/8" thick rolled plastic insulation, which is held in place with electrical tape - over the cool side of the tank. I can move the plexi if I want to, and the fit isn't perfect so there are gaps around it for adequate air flow in and out of the tank. I then suspend my lights a few inches above the plexi so it doesn't melt but the heat is still radiated into the tank. With this set up I can maintain up to 70% humidity, and I usually only have to spritz to adjust when I've had the cage open for spot cleaning or I'm tanking my boas out. I'm also able to keep temps of 82 cool and 88 warm in my BCI cage and 80 cool and 84 warm in my BRB tank.

A few other things to consider is cutting foam core insulation and place it under the tank, and on the sides and back. This can also help keep in heat.

I would also suggest a hide on the cool side and warm side.

One question: are both of these snakes in the same enclosure?

[2babyboas]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

[QUOTE=dangles;404375]welcome to the forum!

are you keeping those both in the same cage? because that is a DEFINITE NO-NO, especially with different species. that's just asking for a disaster and they should be separated immediately.

It's funny you say this because I bought them from a reptile show and I asked the people I bought each from if they could live together. The perv/col boa breeder said as long as they are close to the same size they can grow together and one won't crush the other. The hypo sand boa breeder took my other boa out the container, check it and said that it was ok for the two to live together. My sand boa don't look like the other sand boa's I've seen here except one persons "snake lover". She's like the columbian boa but red, brown and pink under the belly.

I do have the lamp over the heating pad. It just that the thermostat is in the middle. The sand will stay under the rock in the heat during the day but sometime during the night it finds it way back to the water side and sleep between the water bowl and glass.

[dangles]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

...The thermostate is in the middle of the tank ...

...I have foil paper taped to the inside of the lid with an area cut out for light & the heat lamp...

geez, mike... read more closely! lol!

[dangles]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

It's funny you say this because I bought them from a reptile show and I asked the people I bought each from if they could live together. The perv/col boa breeder said as long as they are close to the same size they can grow together and one won't crush the other. The hypo sand boa breeder took my other boa out the container, check it and said that it was ok for the two to live together.

i have no idea why they would tell you that. snakes are solitary creatures. they live alone in the wild, and no respectable breeder/keeper keeps multiple boas in one enclosure. so i'd say split 'em up

the last thing we both want is you coming back sometime in the future asking for advice because one of your snakes attacked the other or refuses food or regurgitates because it's stressed out living with another boa.

[2babyboas]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

Yes they are in the same tank. I was told by the breeders that I purchased them from that it would be ok. See my response to dangles.

So I should use plexi glass and plastic instead of foil? I have foil covering 3/4 of the top. There is only room for the 1 hood light and the heat lamp. The foil is tapped to the inside of the lid so that no air can get in.

[MLynch]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

The reason letting snakes co-exist in the same enclosure is bad is that if one get's sick then so will the other. Also, even though a snake is generally not considered cannibalistic doesn't mean it won’t eat the other snake. This includes boas. There are members here who have had ssp attack each other seemingly out of the blue when they were kept in the same tub during cage cleanings. I've also seen photos of a boa that ate a ball python that was kept in the same enclosure. Snakes are solitary creatures and don't fair well when living together. You don't find them together in nature except for species that hibernate together - and even then that's the only time the do it.

Often times people think it's cute that snakes will sleep on each other when kept together. ...This is not cute. It's actually an assertion of dominance. It's often the larger snake that is on top. This type of activity can cause stress for the smaller or non dominant snake. Once a snake is stressed it's immune system wears down and it is susceptible to illness. And when one snake gets sick all others in the enclosure will too.

Another matter is that you have two different ssp together. They likely have different environmental requirements. My BRB and BCI require different humidity settings, and different temps.

I'm surprised a breeder told you they could live together, because most breeders know to separate snakes (even of the same litter) shortly after birth).

[2babyboas]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

So this mean not only do I have to buy another heating unit but I will need to get a new tank and another heating unit and things for it? If they would have told me I would have only purchased one snake. I have both their emails so I will be speaking with them if they have compatiability issues. For now I'm going to have to risk it. I've already spent too much money. I will get another lamp for now and work on keeping the heat and humidity in.

[MLynch]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

Yes they are in the same tank. I was told by the breeders that I purchased them from that it would be ok. See my response to dangles.

So I should use plexi glass and plastic instead of foil? I have foil covering 3/4 of the top. There is only room for the 1 hood light and the heat lamp. The foil is tapped to the inside of the lid so that no air can get in.

You will get better results out of plexi than foil (IMO). Foil is very thin. It may work with humidity, but it will offer little in the way of keeping in heat.

Cover 2/3 (aprox) with the plexi. This should open up some space for more dome lights. However, if you suspend the lights above the plexi by a few inches then you don't need to worry about fitting them on the screen top and not having enough space.

One bit of advice. be careful with your CHE and plexi glass. To my knowledge CHEs get hotter than incandescent bulbs and even though a bulb 3 inches from plexi may not melt it the CHE might, so just keep that in mind.

[2babyboas]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

That all make perfect sense. Hopefully I will get lucky and this won't happen. I had planned to seperate them when they get bigger they are only about 18-22 inches right now. If I see any signs of problems I will have to do it sooner. Right now they don't even know that the other exist unless I put them together because they don't even go near each other.

[MLynch]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

So this mean not only do I have to buy another heating unit but I will need to get a new tank and another heating unit and things for it? If they would have told me I would have only purchased one snake. I have both their emails so I will be speaking with them if they have compatiability issues. For now I'm going to have to risk it. I've already spent too much money. I will get another lamp for now and work on keeping the heat and humidity in.

One word: Craigslist. If you need another enclosure on the cheap look no further. You may be able to find one for free and only have to pay for the gas to drive out and pick it up.

Good luck, and keep us filled in.

[2babyboas]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

Sounds good I will write down the info and do that right away.

[2babyboas]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

I didn't think of that. Thanks

[b3napoleon]

Re: Heating and Humidity Concerns

I would say if you can't afford 2 enclosures, you can't afford 2 snakes. I'm guessing the breeders told you that they could live together because they felt it would improve their chances of making a sale. I've personally never heard a breeder recommend keeping 2 snakes in the same cage, especially when they are different species.

One thing that wasn't mentioned was immunity. If the snakes are from different locations, they will have different immunities to diseases. The sand boa could be carrying a disease that it's immune to, but the bci doesn't have that immunity. Also if one has mites, both of them will. Getting rid of mites is difficult enough with one snake, nearly impossible with 2 in the same cage.